Deer hunting shotgun

R

rem33

Moderator
So what's better a rifled barrel or rifled slugs? which has the better accuracy or does it matter in a 100 to 150 yard shot on a deer sized animal?

Should I use a low powered scope or as a friend tells me a red dot setup?

I have been seriously considering a shotgun for big game, elk and deer because of a hunt that requires short range guns. I have always hunted with a centerfire and have no experience with shooting slugs.
 
Sabot slugs out of a rifled barrel give you the best accuracy at the farthest range. Rifled slugs are only good for 75 to 100 yds before they start dropping quickly. The sabot slugs will have a higher BC and will be stable longer. Some of todays sabot slugs really turn in some impressive performance. I personally use a smoothbore barrel with rifled slugs but that is to preserve the option of using buckshot from the same barrel. I also use the same setup for HD. If I were getting a dedicated shotgun for deer hunting alone I'd definitely go for the rifled barrel.
 
My wife and I hunt hogs here in NE Florida. During the deer season we can use rifles but as soon as it closes state law says that for the rest of the small game season, which runs about 6 more weeks, you can't have centerfire rifles in the woods. Hogs are still legal game during the small game season but shooting them with a rimfire is obviously not the right way to go and I'm not a fan of buckshot so we did some research.

What my wife ended up with was a second barrel for her H&R Handi Rifle to go with the .243 barrel. The second one is a 20 ga rifled tube. We set a Red Dot on it and sighted it for a couple of inches high at 50 yards with the new Hornady sabots. The bullet in the sabot looks to be their well proven .44 XTP that has a red polimer tip added for aerodynamics. I think it's 265 grains?

Balistics seem to be a little less than a .444 Marlin. Even with the Red Dot, 5 min coverage which makes fine shooting at a hundred somewhat problimatic, it will drop them in a 3 inch circle at that range. Probably do better if we worked on it.

It's not enough for elk as far as I can tell from what I read about elk, even though the hogs she's shot with it succome rather quickly.

From what I see the setup is about a 150 yard max but out to there it works good.

You'd have to do some research but I'll bet some of the 12 ga saboted slugs are even heavier and carry more punch out somewhat farther.

And let me be clear here, I'm talking about sabots holding standard jacketed bullets not big pieces of lead. I've no experence with them and they might be great but the recoil from them is much more than from the lighter bullet.
 
Where I deer hunt it is shotgun only. I use a 870 with rifled barrel and rifled slugs along with a red dot scope. At 100yrds I can put most every shot in a circle as big as the vitals of a deer. After 100yrds I have no idea how the slugs perform, I would assume that they would drop quickly but seeing that most shots at deer in this area are less than 70yrds it really doesn't matter. Bottom line your choice of barrel and ammo depends on how far you plan to shoot.

Less than 100yrds = rifled slugs

More than 100yrds = sabots

Just my opinion:o

Famine
 
Rem 33;

A red dot sight should be just fine for close shots at a whitetail deer.

But you should not try to harvest a Elk at more than 50 yards with a shotgun and I wouldn't reccomend anyone trying to do it.

Even if I had a elk in my backyard and it was elk season and I had a legal license to shoot a elk. I wouldn't do it with anything less than a 270 Winchester and a 150 grain Nosler Partition bullet.

You might have a big enough slug with a shotgun, but you do not have the velocity to get the penetration that you would need to humanely kill a elk at any distance of more than 75 yards.

If I spent money to go on a elk hunt, I sure as heck would beg , borrow or steal a rifle for the hunt.

Leave the shotgun at home please..

I know of outfitters that would not even take you unless you had a mininum of a 300 Winchester Mag and a good scope.

They would rent you a gun or leave you at the motel.

But they sure as heck wouldn't go out and kill themselves to try to get you a elk with a 12 gauge.
 
Gamemaster,

Your answer didn't address one question I ask, 300 mags are more than i want or need. Outfitters and guides are for guys from a city or don't know how or where to hunt, or have the time and money to enjoy such luxuries. For gosh sake man read the question and tell me if you have a clue about accuracy of shotgun barrels with slugs and leave the rest to me. I know how to hunt, I didn't learn from some magazine.

I don't buy my elk hunts, in fact I usta see em from the house, since have moved, and now only hear a rare bugle. I've killed all my elk with a 30-06 150 grain cor-locs except last year. I used a 50 caliber muzzle loader. Shot at 75 to 100 yards. 320 grain bullet, one broke a shoulder and the next went completely thru the lungs and not recovered. I feel fairly confident 100 yards or less with the right setup in 12 gauge which is what I am finding out about.
I am leaning toward a Mossberg combo, two barrels and being lefty that tang safety is real nice. What I am hearing the rifled barrel is the way to go.
I kinda hope to find a older one with a walnut stock but new ugly wood will work.

Thanks.
 
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And what did I say - that I did not know your situation .

That if you can see them in the back yard - I guess it wouldn't matter to you how you shot them or if you missed that you wouldn't care because you could just go out again tomorrow.

I do have experience with shotgun slugs.

I tried to find one that would shoot reliable enough to harvest a turkey a few years back and decided because of the cost of the slugs and the scope and all, to just use a .22 mag instead.

Rifled slugs do not need a rifled barrel.

The rifling on the end of the slug gives it its spin when it flies and the hollow end makes it fly through the air like a badmitten birdy. (sp) Thats what gives it its stability.

When the slug is fired, the pressure pushes out the lead against the wall of the barrel. Deformation comes if you try to shoot it through a choked barrel.

Thats why a improved cylinder works best for rifled slugs.

Velocity is what is going to kill the elk. Not the size of the projectile - as long as it is big enough to get good penetration.

It's just not something that I would want to do with a shotgun.
 
A modern load for the .45/70 pushes a 400 grain bullet at what...about 1900 fps...

lets see what buffalo bore has to offer :

Item 8A: 430 gr. L.B.T.- L.F.N. - G.C. (1925 fps / M.E. 3537 ft. lbs.)
(Big game up to 2500 lbs. - Penetrator Load) Per Box of 20
$46.19
Order Now!

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570


no one would call a modern load for the .45/70 inadequate for short to medium range elk hunting.....


lets see what a win supreme sabot 12 ga load is like....Lets use the Platinum tip because we want it to stay together and penetrate....

Platinum Tip™ Hollow Point Slug
400 Gr. OZ #SABOT SLUG


Muzzle velocity 1700fps energy 2566ft.lbs.

Still pretty significant in my view.

I could not find the older winchester partition gold 385 gr 12 ga at 1900fps which has roughly 3000ft.lbs at the muzzle.

For short range the 12 ga ( with the proper slug, and accurate gun ) should do well.

edit: add the remington slug load for comparision:

Index No. Gauge Shell Length Slug Wt. Velocity
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra Bonded Sabot Slugs

PR12CLU 12 2 3/4" 385-gr. 1900fps

description from the remington page: The ultimate in shotgun sabot slugs. Ultra-high velocities deliver devastating on-game performance and the tightest groups —1.8" — of any shotgun slug with ultra-flat trajectories. Remington® patented spiral nose cuts ensure consistent 2x expansion over a wide range of terminal velocities, while the sleek, ogive nose delivers high down-range energy retention. The 385-grain bonded bullet yields near 100% weight retention. Flattest shooting slug in existence — 10% better than the nearest competition. Designed for use in fully rifled barrels only. In response to the overwhelming success of the 12-gauge load, this year we’re offering a new 20-gauge, 260-grain load for those who prefer the low recoil of a smaller gauge slug.


That will drop an elk at short range!!!!!!
 
So what's better a rifled barrel or rifled slugs?
Click to expand...


Thanks again but this is basicly what I want to know. No farther than I plan on shooting a 6" circle otta work but I want much better at least a 3" group would be nice. So again if you have experiance in either I would appreciate knowing what ya'll know. I know how a firearm works.

The red dot gaget interests me also, but I kinda doubt I will buy one having always used a scope. I was seeking some hands on advice.

That 385 grain at 1900 and if I can get even close to 1.8" groups would do what i am wanting to do. Wonder if they come in 3" with a bit more power.
 
I have used a cantilever scope mounted rifled barrel on shotguns with great success.

If you are looking to go buy a barrel for your existing shotgun specifically for slugs then the fully rifled barrels are the way to go, use the modern sabot slyle slug in these barrels. You will get excellent accuracy once you find a load that it likes. 2-5" 100 yard groups are fairly typical for fully rifled barrels with sabot slugs.

A low power scope or a red dot is an excellent choice, just make sure it can handle the punishment from the recoil of a 12ga slug.

If you already have a smooth bore barrel that you want to use then you can use the older style ' foster ' slugs with success, although they tend to not be as accurate as the modern sabot slugs. iron sights should be fine out to 50-100 yards or so, or you can get a scope mount for it.
 
Thanks Mike,

I just visited the Remington site. I am going to buy a shotgun for a "maybe" hunt this next fall. I have a 870 special field for upland birds and a 20 gauge pump that was grampa's, plus a few others none that meet the requirements I want. I will scope it up and leave it that way. I do think I want to go with a 12 with all the oommph I can get. Elk are big but not bullet proof.

This is a special hunt about 100 miles from me that if I get a chance I want to be ready.
Probably a older 500 with a new rifled barrel. If I can mount the scope on the barrel it could be used for other things but if I need to mount to the receiver it will just stay like that.
 
Remington makes a deer special with the cantilever barrel and synthetic stock.

Enjoy the hunt and have fun!!!

I think B square makes scope mounts that mount on the receiver pins of several types of shotguns - no drilling required if you are using an existing shotgun that you don't want to permanently mount a scope on.

Cabelas:

B-Square Shotgun Scope Mount - Black, Quickly and easily add optics to your shotgun with these black saddle-style mounts from B-Square. They come with Weaver style, low height rings for 1" scope tubes. Constructed of high-quality aluminum alloy, they attach to existing trigger pins and won't interfere with the action. Scope not included.
Color: Black.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=shotgun+mount&noImage=0

or just go to cabelas.com and search for shotgun mount
 
I will scope it up and leave it that way. I do think I want to go with a 12 with all the oommph I can get. Elk are big but not bullet proof.
Click to expand...

If you are setting up a dedicated slug gun and want all the accuracy you can get you might want to have the barrel pinned to the receiver. I've heard of guys here in So. Michigan doing that. I like to be able to easily take the barrel off my 870, but it sounds like a good idea for a dedicated slug gun. Maybe some trigger work too.

Was this some kind of shotgun-only elk hunt or something?
 
I've had a few slug barrels in the past but I haven't done a definitive study. One was a Hastings Paradox barrel with compensator and cantilever scope mount. It was plenty accurate (4-5") out to 150 yds. IIRC, my best accuracy was with Remington copper solid or Winchester supreme sabot slugs.

The other was a 21" rifle sight smooth bore on a 20 ga. 870 express. I could hit a pie plate at 50 yds with rifled slugs but that was about it. I probably could have done better with a scope. Sorry I don't remember what brand the slugs were but it probably doesn't matter much. I've probably shot all brands at various times. I don't have much experience with red-dot sights so I can't say much about them. I personally don't like the idea of adding complexity and battery operated devices when I think the advantages are negligible. K.I.S.S.
 
Thats why a improved cylinder works best with rifled slug
Click to expand...

Actually, on a smoothbore shooting rifled slugs, an open choke is best.

Also the riflings cut into the slug, I believe, are more for a gas check/pressure relief then for the spin of the projectile when fired out of a smoothbore. Don't think there's much spin of projectile with this set-up.

As for which is more accurate/better at the longest range, there's a good article on smoothbore versus rifled slug barrels: www.ibmmonsterbuck.com

I've never hunted anything larger than deer with a shotgun. So my statements are based on penetration of deer only.

I've always used a Rem. 1100 smoothbore's. Own two, both smoothbore's. Have tried many brands of ammo including Brenneke's(they can be shot out of smooth or rifled barrels). One shoots Rem. Sluggers best and the other shoots Winchester best. Both have killed multiple deer out to 100yds.

The drop from 50 to 100yds. with a smoothbore can be dramatic but with plenty of practice is sufficient for deer.

A rifled barrel shooting todays sabots, shoots much flatter and more accurate to a further distance. If I were going to set up a dedicated shotgun for slug hunting deer sized(and larger) game, this is the set-up I'd have probably topped with a nice low power shotgun scope.

If your shotgun has the accu-choke/screw in choke system, the improved cyl. choke will probably fly the saboted slug the best.

Whichever set-up you choose, try different brands of ammo to see what your shotgun shoots best and then practice out to your max range.

Again, google the above mentioned article. Good info.
 
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