Deer Hunt Puzzler!

S

stagpanther

New member
OK--I've already freely admitted I'm a bad hunter--though I do strive to cover all the bases--I'm not by nature an impatient person (though I do have a terrible time sitting in a stand for hours on end--especially when it's bitterly cold).

After my little encounter at the powerline I decided to switch to a more rural area in the center of the state--typified by large tracks of very dense forests with small towns--though some large agricultural fields here and there.

Yesterday I went there and immediately found tons of deer signs right off the main road. I'm not kidding--walking through the woods it was difficult finding areas of ground that did not have deer tracks. I eventually came across a rub line and found plenty of scat and scrapes as well.

The locals all tell me the deer are remaining nocturnal--though I did hear a few shots in the distance over the course of the day. On the other hand--my feeling is that the full-on rut is going to start very soon (we've had a very warm fall).

The woods are extremely dense--in general unless your near a blowdown or clearcut you very rarely can get a clear shot of more than 25 to 50 feet--and that's assuming you can thread a shot between trees well. I'm guessing the tracks are transition areas between swamp/bogs in low lying areas and apple orchards and oak trees nearer the road.

I am certain they are in there--I just don't know what the best way to go about getting them is.

What would you do?
 
Patience

Honestly, I would set up in the place that you see the most traffic. If there is a natural bottle neck or choke point where their various game trails come together, then I would try and set up there. If you know the area that they are bedding at, and you know where they are feeding... perhaps a location on one of their heavily traveled trails that runs between the two would be a good idea.

I know it has been debated heavily... but set out some game cameras. two or three strategically placed could save you days of hunting the wrong location.

As always, hunt the wind. Don't be afraid to change setups if the wind isn't in your favor.

Keep Calm and Hunt On!
 
What would you do?
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The locals are probably correct, deer are normally nocturnal, more so once hunting season is on. If the area is public land, deer will already have patterned hunters coming in from access points. They will either be hunkered down in the deep cover you speak of, or already on the move to another area by the time you step out of the truck. I've seen deer get up and move from just the sound of a car/truck slowing down on the road on public land. It's hard to get in there without them knowing. Thus, if you are going to stand, you need to stand for a long time(like all day) so the deer forget and the woods quiets down. Otherwise you need to let other hunters do the work for you, as I mentioned in my other post. On some public land, hunters make the same drives every day of hunting season. The deer pattern these and are gone before the drive is even set up. Find the escape route and be there before the drive starts, but come in quietly and from another direction than the others use. Other than that, I'd wait till the nastiest, windy and rainy day and sneak hunt into the wind and hope I'd get lucky. Meanwhile I'd be scouting the area out for next year and better access and stands farther from the road. If you are finding lots of sign close to the road and it's public land....so is everyone else that hunts it. Odds are unless driven there from other areas, there will not be deer there during shooting hours.
 
"...best way to go about getting them is..." A blind on or near the edge on one of those large agricultural fields. Depending on what was grown there. Corn or soy beans being preferred. And be in it before dawn.
"...a rub line and found plenty of scat and scrapes as well..." Over looking that would work too.
When it's bitterly cold you need different clothing for sitting still outside than you do for just being alive. Primarily boots, hat and mittens(better than gloves). Thinsulate is your friend.
 
Keep in mind those "agricultural fields" are most likely private ownership and probably some of the surrounding brush or timber. Putting yourself in close cover will severely limit your opportunities to see deer approaching and prepare for a shot. If the rut is truly on, the deer won't be "nocturnal" and will be on the move constantly. Rut is in full swing here in MO and we saw bucks at nearly every hour of the day last weekend.
 
I have had the privilege to hunt both public and private lands for deer over half a century. For the most part, fawns on heavily hunted public land have more savvy than 4 1/2 year old bucks on private land with limited access and little hunting pressure. Any spot close to the road, on public land, with easy access that displays a lot of deer sign will already be heavily hunted. Unless it's a main escape route, or deer are driven thru it, they will avoid it like the plague during daylight hours. You will sit there all season and odds are you won't see a thing unless it's running full bore. Stupid deer don't last long on public land, many times deer on private land are made stupid because hunters let them walk...they don't learn from their mistakes, nor do they die. Once pressured, especially on public land, bucks regain their fear of daylight and people. On private lands, many times the sound of a truck means the bait pile is getting restocked and is a dinner bell. Generally not so on public land. The difference is like hunting a domestic dog compared to a coyote. One has little or no fear of humans, while one has a great fear.
 
This is a common problme on public land, and usually takes two or more people to handle it. Those deer won't move unless somebody goes in there after them. Whoever goes in there, will never see one (will probably hear it) or get a shot at it when it exits. With a group you can take turns being the deer dog.
 
Find an edge on the dense forest, locate the trails leading into and out of it and set up there.

I hunt a managed pine plantation, various segments get cut and thinned on a regular basis. This creates transition zones. You have younge pines bordering on mature pines, these create edges. The deer usually bed up in pines that are 6-15' tall and thick as can be. However, they leave the bedding cover once the browse like blackberries are off the briar bushes to look for food. They'll walk those edges on the way to feeding zones. If the mast is still falling from the hardwoods, you can try to find a spot with larger oaks whose canopy opens up the forest floor some.

We had an older gentleman on the club that had a camo bucket. He'd head off into the woods with his shotgun and bucket. When you heard it go off, you knew you'd be dragging one out of a thicket so tight you couldn't turn sideways in it.
 
Deer still move during the day. Only under certain conditions or extremely heavy pressure do they become completely nocturnal. CIP, last Saturday I was feeding, I walk the corn into the feeders on one stand, as I walked in I looked and had one standing about 20' off the feeder. I continued walking, stamping my foot, snorting, blowing etc, she just stood there. Then it dawn on me, she was looking directly into the sun and couldn't really see me. I got within 30' of that doe before she bolted. That was 3:30 in the afternoon on deer that have been hunted since September 1st. I see them at all times of the day, you just have to pick the right spot and wait them out. It's a game of patience.
 
Right, Saltydog. Deer are diurnal and crepuscular until being pressured nocturnal.

So stagpanther, do you have any areas that would have an attraction/concentration potential such as any fruit, nut, bearing plants, ponds, or geographic features that would funnel deer? I would concentrate on those areas before dawn or before dusk, paying particular attention to playing the wind (difficult, I know, in the woods that often cause swirling).
 
The area has both apple orchards along the road and occasional oak stands in the woods. Because of our exceedingly warm year--it's been a banner year for both--I've actually see acorns lying around untouched in the woods--that almost never happens in the far north. It has also been a banner year for bear and coyotes--I've never seen (and heard) so many signs of their activity--and close in to homes. I've seen some of the biggest bear paw prints ever--and coyotes are all over the place yelping day and night.
 
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Deer still move during the day. Only under certain conditions or extremely heavy pressure do they become completely nocturnal. CIP, last Saturday I was feeding, I walk the corn into the feeders on one stand, as I walked in I looked and had one standing about 20' off the feeder. I continued walking, stamping my foot, snorting, blowing etc, she just stood there. Then it dawn on me, she was looking directly into the sun and couldn't really see me. I got within 30' of that doe before she bolted. That was 3:30 in the afternoon on deer that have been hunted since September 1st. I see them at all times of the day, you just have to pick the right spot and wait them out. It's a game of patience.
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There's very little public land, close to roads,(like the OP has been talking about) where deer have not been heavily pressured. Your post is a prime example of the difference between fed deer on limited access public land as opposed to deer where feeding/baiting deer is prohibited on unlimited access public land. Odds are At Saltydog's club, the best way to hunt a doe, would be to walk to the feeder and bang on the feed bucket.

I have a good friend that has small parcel of land adjacent to a large parcel of public land. He feeds the deer at his place and occasionally hunts. He can walk out his back door anytime of the day and bang on a plastic pail and deer will come out of the woods within a few yards of him. They have been taught/conditioned to identify him, his actions.....and the sound of the pail, to food. Basically what feeders do. You will even see deer from across the road on public land come out and trot to his property at the sound. They do not fear him or others on his property, but if they see someone even just walking on the public land across the road....all the deer will bolt to heavy cover. If a car drives by on the road, they are all at alert until it passes. Bowhunting on private land I have had deer spot me in the tree and become alert, but then go back to what they were doing. I've even had the same buck walk by and look up in the tree to see if I was there. He lived only because I let him walk, not once but several times. On public land, he probably would have been dead half a dozen times. Even if one hunter does let them walk, there's another there that generally doesn't. This is why antler restrictions are not needed on private land, but if one wants quality bucks on public land, it's generally required. Deer only survive by quickly learning what dangers they face, extreme luck, or folks let them live when they make a mistake. Folks on private property pass on many deer. Those deer live even tho they have exposed themselves to danger. That don't generally happen on public land. Kinda why the average age of deer taken differs so much between private and public land and why there are so many rule differences. TimSr said it well, deer movement on public land, during legal shooting hours can be very limited after the first day of gun season. Someone generally need to move them. It can either be you, someone in your hunting party or another random hunter. Hunting on average public land, you can sit on stand and see deer during the day, but the odds will be against you, that it's natural movement. Somebody made them get up and move.

Yes there are exceptions to every scenario. But my years of hunting large tracts of public land has taught me to be continuously successful, you need more than patience. You need to know the area, the escape routes(generally not the ones easily recognized because they are heavy with tracks) where they deer sleep and how to get to them without alerting everyone in the woods. By an hour after sunrise on opening day, most deer will be in flight/hide mode. They wait till dark to feed on acorns and to check their scrapes. Sometimes you need to be the one that moves, in hopes that you can quietly get close enough for a shot, or that you can get one to stick tight in their bed hoping you will pass, that gives you a shot before or as they bolt. Otherwise, you need to have a partner or use other hunters in the woods to your advantage. If there are a lot of other hunters moving in the woods, then your best bet is to sit tight. If not, you will probably need to be aggressive.
 
I live in Maine which is really neither and both when it comes to this public/private dichotomy. There is almost no public-accessible land meaning actual state-owned/managed (which by definition means owned by all the people--but that's a discussion for another day) but rather huge tracts of forest held by timber/paper companies and private individuals.

There has always been an underlying "tension" between hunters and land-owners in Maine. Although legally you are required to request permission to hunt on one's property--traditionally the general hunter's consensus is that unless you post your property it is "public-access."
 
I would set up further from the road {where all the hunters park} then anybody else {about 1 mile?}; and let the hunters chase the deer to you. Be the first hunter up or down the mountain, so other hunters won't be able too flash you off with flashlights.

Sometimes...you can tell where the general direction the buck is going, by all the missed shots at a buck that is trying to hightail it outta there. Vector in the direction and try to intercept him.

Generally...deer do not want to be skylighted on the top edge of the ridge, unless they are crossing it. They usually have deer trails below the top of the ridge.

I prefer not to set up a stand in a bottom, because the wind swirls around too much.

Hunt the funnels.

Pay attention too wind thermals --- In the morning, around 10 am, the wind thermal will rise up the mountain, due to the sun warming the air. The deer are keen to this...so try to set up above them.

Around 4 pm...the wind thermal will start to flow back down to the bottom --- so try to set up below the deer.

Warm air rises...cold air sinks.

Try to set up between the buck's water zone and his bedding zone. He'll sometimes get a drink before dawn, before he starts to go back to his bedding zone.
 
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I hunt private land but you don't need permission, the power company owns it. It's basically public land with hunting laws of private land. I also usually hung some private land but there's so many hunters on 100 acres it's rough. There's a state ran farm I hunt too sometimes too. Honestly I've had my best luck walking, not sitting. Walk all day, enjoy myself, and more than likely jump a deer or sneak up on it. Or sit, freeze, get sore, go crazy in my thoughts, and might see a deer walk in.
 
You have to watch the phases of the moon. If the moon is out so will be the deer and those that tell you that you need to be on stand before the sun comes up are not watching the moon. When the moon is out the deer feed all night long and then bed down. They will start moving again in early afternoon.
 
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