Deciding Which Rifle to Buy.

P

Pete

New member
I want to purchase a semi-automatic rifle with detachable magazines. I'm having a hard time making up my mind.

The primary use would be target shooting, just for fun. The other use would be as a combat rifle, should y2k SHTF.

I currently own a 10/22 which I use a lot, but I want something more fun. I also have a Mossberg 500 for home defense.

Factors which will influence my purchase include cost, the availablity of parts/accessories, reliability, and the availability of hicap magazines at reasonable (under 30$) prices. I also would be swayed to purchase a gun which is in danger of being banned soon, just so that I could have it, if any fit this category.

The guns which I was looking at include my first choice, a Bushmaster Shorty AK. This is at the top of my list, because they seem so reliable and accurate and are fun to shoot. However it is at the very top of my price range.

I was also considering an SKS. They are cheap and seem to pack more punch. Can I still purchase one of these new w/detachable magazines? Are they reliable/accurate?

Other guns which I was considering include a Mini-14 (heard they were much inferior to AR-15), or the Marlin Camp Carbine or Hi-Point Carbine (very cheap).

What do you think is my best bet, taking into account what I've said above?
 
Hmmm....

You may want to consider instead a Mossberg Shotgun.

Of the rifles, Think about some lever actions too... Of the Box mag types, the Marlins are good rifles, and are pretty dependable. Check around your local pawnshops for a good deal. AKs are hard to beat. SKS's dont detach the mags like you would prefer.
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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE



[This message has been edited by Kodiac (edited May 27, 1999).]
 
Already have a Mossberg 500 :)

I don't really want a bolt/lever action. I guess I want a military-style weapon. There are no SKS w/detachable magazines?
 
Well, I was very happy woith my Marlin Camp 9. IMO, it is a little better than the Rugers, but it is not a target rifle by any stretch. My best handloads grouped at about 3 inches at 100 yards. And, it is a pistol caliber, in my mind, it was fun rifle and easier to hit with than a pistol, but was lacking in punch. If I again get a pistol caliber carbine, it will be 10mm, .357 Mag, .357 SIG, or maybe .44 Mag.

The Bushmaster AR is obviously the best choice, but it may be hard to get one, the supply is drying up fast. Bushmaster is 200,000 rifles behind on their orders and is no longer selling lowers only.

I would avoid the SKS. It is serviceable, reasonalby accurate and it can be used for hunting, but it like buying a Yugo instead of a Chevy.

The mini 14 is a good option, but is not as accurate or reliable as the ARs.

I say go for the AR.

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Good Shooting, MarkCO
http://homes.acmecity.com/rosie/smiley/58/
 
You might check out one of the Pre-99 ban AK-74's. New mags are about $5-$10 apiece and the ammo costs just a bit less than .223 right now.
 
I would recommend getting the best rifle that you can afford. It is better to be cheated on price than quality! (please don't ask how I know that)

That said, I would go with the AR if indeed you didn't have to suffer too much paying for it (the kids still do have to eat :) ). The AR is really head and shoulders above EVERYTHING else you have mentioned. Accurate, reliable, well made, etc. Many inexpensive and reliable hi-cap mags still out there.

If you do decide on the AR, don't waste any time. The prices are on the rise, and the prices on the mags are rising even faster! I see shorty BM ARs at almost every gunshow.

If you don't go with the AR, I would second the idea of lever actions - one in 357 is calling my name!

The Mini 14 is a pretty capable gun, but it is a jack-of-all-trades and master of none. As a self-defense gun it does really have a lot to offer, but since I got my AR, I hardly even shoot mine.

HTH!
 
Pete: Going back to your original parameters, with semi-auto: Target shooting "just for fun" means, to me, relatively low recoil. This would mean to me a .243 or less, which is available in semi-auto.

For near-home combat from some Y2K SHTF situation, pin-point accuracy becomes a very low priority. Since you're probably not going to be camping out for months, and will have regular quiet times for maintenance, almost any gun is reliable if cleaned halfway regularly.

Somebody is gonna have to explain to me the need for high-cap magazines, unless you intend to fight off very large groups. Me, if I see a very large group of 10-20 or more, I'm leaving. However, it is my understanding that 20-round mags are more reliable about feeding than 30s and 40s, due to spring-tensions being a bit too high in the larger mags. (Although I've never had problems myownself.)

I've had reasonable accuracy and zero difficulties with unmodified Mini 14s. I think I'd prefer the .223 cartridge over the AK round...

Since there are 10-round mags for the Remington 740-series hunting rifles, and they come in .243, they are an option. My 742K in .30-'06 cost $300, a common price, although an '06 ain't a casual plinker unless you handload...

Hope this is some useful food for thought.

Art
 
Thanks for your replies. I have a few more questions to those that wrote.

AK74s - couldn't find any on the internet under a grand.

To be honest regarding need for semi-automatic and hi cap magazines; I'll be using the gun to blaze away at homemade targets the majority of the time. The less I have to reload magazines, swap, etc. the better. This gun is mostly for fun, with y2k stuff as an afterthought.

How bad does the 7.62 ammo that the SKS fires kick? Compare the enjoyment factor of shooting this type of bullet into old plates, signs, milk jugs, and the like to shooting .223? :)
 
With or without a muzzlebrake, the 7.62x39 cartridge that the SKS and AK-47 use is not bad at all. It does have more kick than a AR in .223, but what doesn't?

The only current problem with the AK-74 is the price of the gun. A year and a half ago, when I picked up two AK-47's, they only cost $200-$250. Now, I have trouble finding any under $450 that will accept the hi-cap mags, although the mags are dirt cheap.

My understanding is that the AK-74's 5.45x39 cartridge is ballistically very similar to the AR's .223 (as it was designed to directly compete in the field).
 
Art, I think you are considerably more experienced with firearms than I am. But, my thinking on so-called 'high cap' mag's goes like this ...

My most important reason for having any firearm is self defense. From what I hear and read (and, it sounds logical to me), a violent confrontation does all kinds of things to your motor skills, adrenaline, etc., and folks tend to miss more often than they hit. A firearm that takes different sizes of magazines is essentially more flexible in use than one that does not. So, if I want a multi-purpose firearm, highly-capable for self defense, which carries enough ammunition for almost any logical self-defense situation, then I want one that holds plenty of rounds in the magazine.

I doubt seriously I'll ever have to use such a firearm for self defense. I also don't expect to have my house burn down, but I have home insurance. I don't expect to be disabled, but I have disability insurance. I don't expect to be in an auto accident, but I wear my seat belt. I don't expect my truck to have a dead battery, but I carry jumper cables.

I don't expect anything bad to happen to me in particular, but if I have a choice between a firearm that can only hold 5 rounds versus a firearm that can hold 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 or more rounds, well it seems more logical to go for the greater flexibility.

I know I'm not telling you or anyone else anything you don't know, but since this seems to be such a hot political issue, I want to flesh out these arguments with you. If my thinking seems flawed, I honestly would like to know why.

Thanks, and regards from AZ.

ps - Pete, go with the AR. ;) It's a long-term 'security' investment. Has certain advantages over stocks and bonds.
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting that high capacity is a disadvantage, just that it wouldn't be wise to sacrifice quality for big mags.
With that said, why not an m1a? It shoots .308 so has much greater range and accuracy than the other rifles mentioned. .308 is also a good game round and can put meat on your table. Greater flexibility than .223 or 7.62x39.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
The votes are in :).

AR15 3
AK74 1
Mini14 1
Shotgun/Lever Action? 1
M1A 1

I decided to purchase the AR15. (Shorty AK from Bushmaster) I sent in my money to purchase and should have it within a week (buying it new from a private individual). I'll let you know how it works out. Thank you for your time and help. If I buy another rifle it will probably be something in a larger caliber, but I will probably buy another shotgun or apply for my pistol permit first.
 
Pete:

My SKS experience is that NO detachable mags work reliably; even the Norinco 20-round non-detachables that are built just like the stock mags do not feed reliably. But the stock 10-rounders go to work. And beyond that, ammo is cheap, accessories aplenty, and it's a fun gun; though I can't imagine anything more fun than a 10/22.
 
I'd go with an AR type rifle. Accurate, reliable, and high capacity mags are easier to come by than for the Mini14.

Another advantage of the AR is that for the common man, they're easier to work on. You can't take any Mini14 hammer and drop it in if your old hammer is worn. It must be fitted.

Also, Bushmaster will likely increase in value thanks to pending legislation - especially in CA. The Mini may not be affected.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Yes, there are SKS's with detachable mags. They are called SKS-D's and use the AK-47 magazines. It can be a fun range "toy", but I'd look elsewhere for a defensive rifle.
 
Jeff Thomas: I tend to play Devil's Advocate from time to time, hoping to get folks to think about what's said to them when they ask questions. Sometimes the answers aren't obvious as to the responder's reasoning. I guess all of us are sometimes guilty of that, on various other subjects...

I have some high-cap mags myself. But sometimes the context of discussion is a bit too much "Oh, wow! High-cap mags!". To me, there's gotta be a thought-out, systematized decision-making process when folks are spending quite a bit of money. It's particularly important when the would-be buyer is a newbie or relatively new to some facet of the world of guns.

You're right about the effects of the old adrenaline rush. I've seen guys at IPSC matches do all manner of weird stuff, when the only pressure was from the clock and their own psyche! Which, of course, is why practice and training is important--not to mention thinking about various scenarios as they apply to your own specific situation.

Best regards, Art
 
Any one of the AK series guns would be acceptable for your purposes. The SLR95 is the best quality and the most accurate. (2" at 100 yds. with the right ammo) It is no tack driver but it will get the job done. The operating system is extremely simple and ultra reliable. Plus you are firing a 30 cal. projectile as opposed to the AR's 22 cal.. There are parts kits available for all types of AKs although in reality they very rarely break. They are banned now. The only AKs that can be imported are the ones with those silly 5 and 10 round single stack mags. Stay away from those. You can still find mags pretty cheap although they are going up in price now. Ammo is definitely still cheap. (1000 rnds. of Russian hollowpoint for $125)

I like my AR very much. It is more accurate and more user friendly than my
AK but it is still a 22. Yes,you can get reliable hits at 500 yds. but you must keep in mind that at that range you have less kinetic energy than a 22lr does at the muzzle. It is also much more complex than the AK.

For your stated used you will enjoy either (both?) weapon. Running into the battlefield conditions that make the AK shine are highly unlikely. Inkeeping with your cost restrictions (although the gap is definitely closing) and the KISS principle I would highly recommend an AK, preferably of Bulgarian decent (SA93, SLR95) IMHO

You will like the Shorty AK. I have a Dissapator with an AK brake on it and I love it. It's my favorite groundhog gun! Make sure you have good hearing protection. That muzzle brake is LOUD. Don't let anyone you really like stand next to you while firing it.

[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited June 02, 1999).]
 
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