Decided To Buy a Lever-action

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internetfish

New member
OK....I've decided after much thought and reading of this forum and magazines to buy a new lever action rifle. After reading all the old posts on all the lever action things in TFL, I hae decided to buy a Winchester 94, but now I'm stuck with deciding on the sub-model....Traditional, Trapper or Ranger? .30-30 or .44? Tough choice for me.
Now, I've read that the .44 will make a lever-action shoot loose....any truth to this, or is this strictly with the heavier loads. I will probably stay around 240 grns. if I go the .44 route. Anyone know of any .44s shooting loose with standard loadings from the factory. I don't handload so I am at the mercy of the factory loaded fodder. Another issue is barrel length. I live in an area where most shots are well under 100 yds. Is the short Trapper barrel in either caliber capable of shots up to 100 yds and if so, how much ACTUAL velocity and energy am I losing by selecting the shorter barrel. I like easy carrying rifles as I am a somewhat small guy, being 5'10" 160. Any help would be appreciated...

Fish
 
I'm a little over 5'-11"; 175 pounds. I use an '06, since back when I was getting up to 5'-11" and 130 pounds... :)

Anyway: While the shorter barrel is handier and quicker to swing on a moving target, it is often a bit "muzzle light" for best control at a stationary target, offhand.

I doubt if the ballistic differences due to barrel length, for those two cartridges, will matter at all within the 150-200 yard limits for accuracy of hit and clean kills.

Shooting loose? Maybe in more than enough rounds to wear out the barrel, however many that is. I have a Model 94 of 1902 vintage which spent many years in Mexico. It's a bit loose, but it was rusty and "wo' out" when I got it. It shoots just fine, though, with a new barrel.

Enjoy, Art
 
Not to flame your choice of Lever actions, but the new Winchester 94 aren't what they used to be. Be sure to handle a Marlin before you buy that 94. You might reconsider your winchester purchasee. And both Marlin and Winchester have been making firearms for over a 100 years. Go to www.marlinfirearms.com
 
I've got several Marlins, a Winchester and a Savage in the safe. All are good guns. I personally prefer the Marlin over the Winchester as the Marlin has a shorter throw and the "guts" don't get exposed every time I throw the lever.
My Marlin in .44 Mag has shot loose but that was due to hot 'n heavy loadings of 300 gr persuasion. Not to mention that I've probably put close to 10,000 rounds through it over the years. Still shoots fine for me though. Nowadays it's mainly a CAS rifle though it does go out on the hunt now and then.
The pistol caliber versus rifle caliber dilema is another question that you must ask yourself. The rifle caliber is much much more powerful. It will have a much flatter trajectory and knockdown power than a pistol cartridge. On the other hand, the pistol calibers are easier for some people to shoot and usually have a greater ammunition capacity. Also pistol ammunition is generally less expensive than rifle ammunition. One caveat with the Marlin with Micro-Groove rifling is that generally it is more favorably disposed towards jacketed bullets as opposed to lead though I can get all the accuracy I need with mine with lead bullets (I reload and lead bullets are much cheaper than jacketed bullets). That is something that has to be determined by the individual shooter and firearm though.
I think that with the shorter barrels in pistol calibers 100 yds may be pushing the limit (at least until you are very familiar with the gun). All of the carbines (pistol and rifle caliber) and many of the shorter rifles (20") are rather handy to use so I wouldn't worry too much about the difference in barrel lengths. Velocity in the shorter barrels would be rather minimal, most likely 100 fps at the most. Also most factory pistol ammunition is developed for use in handguns so any velocity increase is generally icing on the cake.
 
What they said. I have more reason than most to be a Winchester loyalist, but I have to say that I really think the 336 or the 1895 are better rifles. They clean from the breech, don't dump their guts every time you cycle the action, have fewer small parts and are stronger than the equivalent Browning designs. (NOW I will catch it, no? Blasphemy!)

Take a careful look -- there's more than a name here.
 
Fish,

I'm presently going through the same dilemma as you are, so let me share with you what I've found in the last few weeks.

Winchester V. Marlin
Everybody says to go with the Marlin, but I wonder if these same people have actually carried the Marlin all day. They really are better guns, but hey, they're also at least a pound heavier, totally defeating your purpose of a short, handy rifle. BOTH the Marlin and Winchester rifles I examined at Wal-Mart looked HORRIBLE. Are they painting these guns black now instead of bluing them? I will probably go with the Trapper (over the Ranger compact) to get better wood and hopefully a better finish.

Pistol V Rifle Cartridge
In terms of power, it's a draw, but due to its better trajectory, the 30-30 has more range than the .44 mag, probably about 50-75 yards more. The .44, on the other hand, can be a "short-range wonder" for putting down deer quickly. It also has an edge in capacity, 5 v. 9 rounds. I will choose the 30-30, since for self-defense I will get a Bushmaster. I wouldn't want to worry about my magazine tube springs going bad because I kept the rifle loaded (I'll just rotate my AR mags). I have heard that recoil is similar for both calibers, probably with the .44 being worse.

Carbine V. Standard length
I'm 5'7" and the carbine is WAY handier for me, almost toy-like (I had a Trapper 45 long Colt). Mine was very, very accurate (2" w/ peep sight at 80 yds) and I had no problems with muzzle lightness.
Velocity loss in a 30-30 will mean about 200 fps less for the 16" carbine. Since most factory velocities out of a 20" barrel are a little underwhelming, we're talking approximately 2200+ fps for a 150 grainer v. 2000+ fps for the carbine, 2100 if you use hotter ammo. Whether it makes any difference to the deer you shoot, I doubt it, since there is only one degree of dead and the 30-30 flat-nose has a rep for not being as velocity-sensitive regarding effectiveness. the real issue here is muzzle blast, and that's a personal choice.

Winner
Winchester 30-30 Trapper. If only Marlin made a 16" 30-30, and WITHOUT the ridiculous porting .... and in STAINLESS ...


Hope this helps,

Grapeshot
 
Guys,

Thanks a million for the insight. What I've gathered here is that there is no real difference between the two rounds in as much as sub-150 yard shots are concerned, the .44 being a little worse on the recoil spectrum, but that is probably no worse than my Winchester 1200 12 guage, I'm sure. Another thing I've gathered here is that the Marlins are a little better in regards to fit and finish, but, alas, that Winchester sure feels less clubby and lighter. As far as the guts are concerned on cycling the action...what exactly happens that could be negative? I'm ignorant to lever actions, having fired only a .22 Marlin lever-action years back. I also gather that the Trapper is better for fit and finish... Thanks...I will continue to debate this with myself. My heart says go .44, but my brain says go .30-30. So now it's down to the trapper, but which caliber? Thanks again...

Fish
 
Fish,
If you have a handgun in .44mag, I'd go with the .44. Then, your ammo could be used in either weapon, just like the cowboys of old.

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Never do an enemy a minor injury. Machiavelli
"Stay alive with a 45"
 
240 grs are more than adequate for bambi, and so is the 44's 125 yard range. Also, the 44 out of a 20" rifle barrel is about as polite as a centerfire rifle gets.

If your neck of the the woods is becoming increasingly urbanized, or you hunt on farms with livestock, carrying the 44 is good manners.

Tom
 
Internetfish --

The reason I sold my '94 legacy was twofold. First, the lever has to activate a sear safety before it could fire. To do this, you have to hold the lever tightly against the stock. Secondly, the trigger has a lots a foreplay. According to the manual, this foreplay is a safety feature. Combined, these two safety features made it impossible to fire accurately and swiftly. The Marlin has none a these features. The trigger is crisp, the lever throws quickly. Try both before you buy.
 
In regards to the guts of the rifle coming out. What happens is that the action is open to the elements when cycled. Hunts don't always take place on a nice dry sunny afternoon. Rifles are set on the ground or fall. Rain, mud, snow, dirt and any other number of deitrius can get in the action causing all manner of damage even if wiped down. It's just easier for foreign matter to get into the inside of a Winchester receiver than it is a Marlin receiver.
 
Icopy said the new 94's aren't what they used to be, I agree. If I was in the market for a level gun I find a pre-64 model 94, something made in the mid 50's. I've got one built in 1950 that I will never part with. Very nice rifle.

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bullet placement is gun control
 
I love Leverguns too. Funny but with all ive had I only have one now, a brand new Browning BL-22lr that is just to sweet , and accurate, for words.

If there are two levergun's I really yearn for it would be a Win Trapper 45colt and a Marlin 45/70 standard tube. The guide gun is a novelty, tho an awfully cool one, but the standard length Marlin in 45/70 is a nicely balanced and versatile shooting stick.

Ahhhh levergun's, somehow the world is right when one is in your hands........wheel's
 
I...fish, Wheelgunner6 hit it on the head with his desire for a Win. 45 Colt Trapper. All the power you could ever want especially if you handload. Makes a great team with the Ruger Blackhawk .45 convertible.
I actually believe the Winchesters of today are far superior to those of yesteryear. To round off this package get a Win. 9422 trapper. You'll be in heaven as I am.

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"In my opinion, anyone pushing through anti-gun legislation is a bloody traitor and should be sent up for treason" N.H. Stuart
 
My thoughts are if you're going to carry a long gun opt for the 30/30. It does have more range. Don't flame me about the 44 being a very potent round for deer. I handgun hunt with the following handgun calibers. 41 Mag., 44 Mag. 45 Colt and 444 Marlin (Contender) and 7mm TCU but again if I'm going to carry a rifle give me the 30/30.

Too many Wallmarts around to have to worry about your hand and rifle be interchangable with the ammo.

I used to have a Win. Trapper in 30/30 great little rife. Sorry I sold it.

Turk
 
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