Dealing with the concealed carrier

G

Glenn E. Meyer

New member
http://www.policeone.com/police-pro...citizens-legally-carrying-a-concealed-weapon/

This is from Ron Avery - well known in the training community. We can't post it all due to copyright arguments that are now occuring.

But it is an excellent read.

The article describes the classic tells for concealed carriers, how to discern between legal and illegal carriers. Some of the legal tells really hit home - you are so secret. For example, check a person's belt.

It also discusses how to deal with a concealed carrier, the attitudes of such and their psychology. It's a good read from the police view for those who get their dander up when a LEO doesn't view them as a hero and ally.

If you discuss it - don't post the whole thing!

Glenn
 
I did rather enjoy reading that article.

It shows that LEOs are just as human as we are, and just as concerned about their safety. But since they have to go out and make contact with all sorts of people who may or may not be "out to get them", for lack of a better term, they will be on high alert.

I'm glad that they are putting this sort of information out. It will in effect decriminalize CCW'ers.
 
God bless Mr. Avery for writing this and making it widely available. Honestly, I didn't see a single point raised that isn't true in many, if not all, cases. Obviously, specific individuals (for instance, the multi-tatooed scruffy-looking guy, or . . . girls), but overall, this article describes a VCDL meeting.

Heh - like armoredman, I had no idea how many indicia of carrying I was broadcasting. Our PD in Fairfax County, Virginia has been bracingly well trained, but it wasn't always so, and we had some ugly incidents just a few years ago. Same for the neighboring Prince William County. There I had a recent incident where the officers were called on a man-with-a-gun call (your humble correspondent), and they actually took it as a "teachable moment" to explain to the complainant the relevant Virginia law. They never contacted me at all, even though I was sitting right there, saying nothing, acting casual. Wow.

This part amused me, in a good way:

Are they right- or left-handed? Most carry the gun on the strong side of the body. What side of the body is the wrist watch on (if you can see it)? Right handers generally wear the watch on the opposite hand. This will tip you off on where to look. Is there a cell phone that you can see? What side are they wearing it on? If not on the strong side, then maybe there is a reason for the off-side carry? Possible indicator.
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I do wear my cell phone on the left, but my pocket watch is worn strong side, with the chain often directly behind the loops of my holster.

Of course, I solve this entire is-he-or-isn't-he conundrum by carrying openly most of the time. :p

ETA: the linked story about police asking for help from citizens is also interesting, if too brief. Also, the history of citizen assistance is woefully incomplete.
 
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Ahh... it makes me smile that I don't "fit the profile" for a CCWer.

pocket carry plus normal dress minus "tactical gear" = :)

and being alert to your surroundings while not appearing to be in Condition Yellow/Orange. ;)
 
Some of the statements made by the guy about how to detect a concealed weapon carrier are a bit simplistic:

  • "Colder weather finds CCW carriers wearing jackets and windbreakers" - doesn't everyone?

  • "They may or may not be wearing some sort of sporting goods or gun manufacturer logo." - Huh? May or may not? That really pins it down...

  • "In hot weather, some will have a shirt hanging over the belt line to conceal an in the pants holster. Any sort of outer garment in hot weather or the shirt hanging out over the pants is cause for further scrutiny." - When I dress casually outside of working hours, I always wear my shirt untucked in hot weather whether I happen to be carrying or not. So does much of the male population.

  • "Also common are fanny packs." - I don't recall the last time I saw a guy with a fanny pack.

  • "Watch for accessories — CCW’s carry the same gear as cops. An expensive folding knife in the pocket, a Surefire flashlight, and even magazine pouches are all indicators." - Does the absence of these items mean that the person does not have a CCW? I don't think so...

I suppose the point about the belt (if you can see it) and unusual bulges in the clothing are potential giveaways, but most of the other points are applicable to just about anyone. All things considered, I don't really think these tips help much in identifying someone with a concealed weapon.
 
Ahh... it makes me smile that I don't "fit the profile" for a CCWer.

pocket carry plus normal dress minus "tactical gear" =

and being alert to your surroundings while not appearing to be in Condition Yellow/Orange.
Click to expand...

the only "tactical" stuff i wear is my belt.
 
The use of a holster is a key point that I have heard mentioned before as a criterion for discriminating between the law-abiding and criminals.

A criminal will want to be able to ditch the gun and any associated evidence at a moment's notice--having to take off and get rid of a holster at the same time is an additional hassle and liability.
 
I was blushing at times when I read about typical cues to concealed carry. I definitely exhibit several of them. (wry grin) This was an excellent article, albeit meant for policemen rather than civilian CCWers. But I think it's a good article for us civilian CCWers to read nonetheless. Among other things, it reminds us about the issues that cops face and what they worry about when stopping a civilian. Most of us don't regularly face being shot and possibly killed on the job, for one. :-/
 
Jaycee, I'd be of the opinion that the tell tale signs and manarisms ofcourse depend too on where you live. In his part of the country fanny Packs maybe the in thing... In other's maybe not unless you are past age of caring... generally 60+. Also urban vs rural areas.
 
I agree with JayCee.. while the article is very comprehensive, it is also broad, and doesn't pin down a lot of useful decision points. It's just tips of what to look for. If you see 3-4 of those indicators, then yes, it would raise suspicion. No single indicator (other than visibly seeing firearms or ammunition) would be a clear tell-tale sign. Then again, I could walk down a city street and in an hour find you dozens of people who exhibit 4-5 of those indicators and aren't carrying anything beyond their keys and some cash, let alone a knife or gun.

But yes, most of the statements are "may or may not" or "could be" indicators, which as JayCee says, are applicable to the general population or nearly any segment of the population, not just CCWers. Every guy I know owns a pair of Oakleys or Raybans and only a couple of them even own a firearm let alone carry. The part about the jackets made me laugh. The better point would be that wearing heavy clothing out of season is an indicator of CCW.

Regarding the hot weather.. not too many males in the 12-45 age range tuck-their t-shirts anymore, regardless of where you go in the country.

Personally, I don't own ANY of the "tactical" gear, I don't shop at Bass Pro Shops or at any other "outfitter." 80% of the time I'm wearing a shirt & tie with dress pants, usually with a suit jacket, and 20% of the time it's jeans/khakis/shorts and a button down/polo/tshirt. Any weapons or items are concealed such that they do not print, and I do not fondle or look at them when out and about. Not to be condescending, because I know it fits some peoples' lifestyle and so that's their personal choice, but I see guys wearing the 5.11 shirts or Paramedic-style cargo pants and laugh a little inside.
 
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I just saw an obvious fanny pack the other day. Wallet clearly in pack pocket. The zippers had long red strings attached for quick opening. Black - tac appearance.
 
One of my hobbies when out in public is looking for other concealed carriers. I find it interesting for some reason. Like the time I saw a guy pushing a cart past me in Wal-Mart wearing a Glock t-shirt, sure enough he had the expected bulge about 4:00 on his hip. The guy at the convenience store wearing the Blackhawk shirt? That was too easy, and he was obviously carrying something big (I do too, but I feel its not obvious and I don't wear Blackhawk shirts, when I showed my brother that I had a Government Model 1911 on me the whole day he freaked out).
 
What I have done to my Maxpedition is use as zipper pulls black cord with wood beads on the cords sort of back to the hippie days. From what I have observed while using the Maxpedition is the average person on the street has no clue and doesn't even notice the bag. All the sheep-els in their own little world.
 
I wear CZ gear sometimes, but even most gun people don't know the logo. :)

P01at25yardsCZshirt.jpg
 
The use of a holster is a key point that I have heard mentioned before as a criterion for discriminating between the law-abiding and criminals.
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Ive been outed :)

I frequently Mexican carry. Handy for those stop and go car trips :)

WildcallmegmoneyhomestylespotdoggieAlaska ™
 
Concealed means concealed

I’ve no concern about the non-gun people spotting that I carry because they don’t know what to look for.

I’ve no concern about CCWs spotting me because they don’t care.

I do have concern about LEOs spotting me because they might be a nerd about it.

My main concern is about BGs spotting me, and they probably know what to look for, because if I need to defend against them I want it to be a surprise.

Why wear something, arrange clothing in a manner, or carry in a manner, which announces like a billboard, “I’m packing a gun!”
 
Clay, it's marketing and culture. In order to sell more products, the manufacturers have created a new form of the old gun culture. Part of being in that fraternity includes all the gadgets and clothing to accessorize.. it's no different if you're a golfer, a pool player, or are into fountain pens. Each industry has found clever ways to make consumers think they need to purchase tons of extra stuff in order to properly "experience" the primary product.

Oddly, I'm able to play golf with the same set of clubs I hit ten years ago. I play pool with nothing more than the cue my Pops gave me when I was tall enough to hold it. And I write with the same small handful pens I've had since 1992, adding nothing more than ink when necessary.

Unfortunately, we (collectively) are a "want it now" people. Throw in a few "tacticals" and some vague "SOCOM" references and they all bite.
 
I guess concealed doesn't mean concealed anymore apparently. A very good article that reveals conclusively that everyone is in some sort of uniform. I knew this and like looking at people out and about but certainly thought I was concealed! I try not to dress the part, I wont wear logo hats of a non service nature. I dress the uniform of the service personnel which are seen as good guys until we write up the bill lol. And when not working No 511 vest for me or fanny pack. But he read my description otherwise even to demeanor...sigh.
My belt gives me away, and shoes. I like cargo pants! I wondered if I talk too matter of fact to cops sometimes but apparently not, this id's me as forthright and rightious attitude, I always look them in the eye, and posture myself in a benign way. A well used holster with no accompanying criminal record always helps too I think, as I never did go get the ccw.
 
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