Dateline ffl dealer sting???

M

Mantas

New member
Did anyone see Dateline tonight(wed.)? I saw the commercial and it was about ffl's. The commercial showed/said they had footage of ffl's letting 2nd parties get handguns for their underage/felon friends that were standing next to them.
I live near Detroit and was wondering if the story was about the Detroit sting and lawsuits.
Comments from folks that have seen it are needed.
 
Won't be on here yet for a few hours...

Saw the promos during the network news...of course it was immediately before the news segement about Clinton railing against the House and NRA for watered down gun control bill.

As an aside...did any of you hear the Clinton interview segment last week where a reporter got on him for "weak" gun control and Clinton defended himself by saying its stupid to go out on a limb for something that won't pass, so ya take what ya can get and try later?
Anyway, thats what Hyde said about the current GC stuff...that they are trying to craft something that will pass the House. Interesting that its ok for Clinton but he castigates others for the same actions.

Will watch the Dateline thing when its on. And, Nick...if I get sick or bust the TV or kick my dog....you owe me!

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Well, It was about the Wayne County / Detroit sting. Now, if you are from Michigan you know that you must have a purchase permit to legally buy a handgun and multiple sales are not illegal, the feds just have to be notified. It seems to me that if someone tells a dealer he is an convicted felon but has a hand full of purchase permits (that you have to go thru a CCH check to get) --CCH = Computerized Criminal History, either he is lying about being a convicted felon or the police department that issued the permits [dirty word}ed up badly in issuing the permits.

They had a video of a teenager buying a Ruger Mini 30, which they called an assault rifle, at a gun show. The adult male with the teen paid for the rifle. If a father takes his son to a gun show, pays for a rifle that the kid wants, is that a straw purchase?

It looks as if Wayne County and Detroit are trying to win their lawsuits against the gun manufacturers via the TV. [REAL DIRTY WORDS GO HERE]

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum




[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited June 09, 1999).]
 
Forgot to mention on the gun segment on NBC News:

Apparently gun and accessory sales are booming across the country right now.
Main reasons given by dealers and buyers: 1)" New laws will leave folks defenseless so get them now and don't tell"
2) "Will be a ban soon, so get them now while you can"

So, get this...some politicos said..."No, we aren't going to ban anything"
And a guy named Diaz from VPC said: Congress is now obligated to pass the Senate bills because if not, the House will be responsible for promoting all these added gun sales....thus, if the House waters down and passes weak laws, we have all these new guns on the street for no reason.

Huh? That makes absolutely no sense

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Gee, and you were thinking, just this once they would make sense in DC. (He said with a sarcastic smirk.)

If my wife whips out the checkbook to write the check to buy my gun is that a straw purchase too. She would never let me have the cash to do it (I would buy the first one that suited me, and not shop around at all.)

Now granted, I'm all for prosecuting dealers who don't even try to play by the rules. But I was at the Indy 1500 gun show this past weekend, and guess what, just about every dealer had a cell-phone and was doing NICS. There may have been some shady dealers their but I couldn't find them. So to me this gun show "loop-hole" is just another load of garden fertilizer. Made to make the do-nothing politicians look like they are "for" the people and trying to "protect" society. Grrrr... and I wonder why my wife doesn't want me to watch the news on TV.

Of course the next thing you'll hear about is how some gang looking dude tried to buy a gun, was denied because he didn't look right but had all the right paperwork, so the gang looking dude decides to sue the dealer for discriminating against him.

And another thing about the gun show. Boy was it ever crowded. The most people I've ever seen. And boy are people polite at gun shows. Some body bumps into someone else and you hear "Excuse me" from both parties. Try that at your local Walmart. Also the Y2K supplies were a big item. But that's another thread I don't need to get into here.

Peace (through superior firepower)
Keith
 
I thought it was a Chicago sting? Maybe I was mixing it up with the one I read about in Newsweek.

There were some things in there that were exaggerated like the (Omigawd!) "Assault rifle!!" that was bought. And the fact that a man told her he was a "felon" but still was able to pass the background check. To me that sounds like he wasn't a felon...?

I have a problem scenario for everyone: Say a minority person goes into a gun store acting like a "gangsta" and wants to buy a gun. The dealer "gets a bad vibe" and tells the person that he refuses to sell to him because he just isn't sure if he is a "good person". DOES ANYONE ELSE HERE SMELL A LAWSUIT COMING? A dealer can not just refuse to sell to someone because they look shady. That is called discrimination, and probably racism by the time it got to court. So, what are these dealers supposed to do? Only sell to people that look like good guys? And what would be the criteriea for that? I wish that people had the right to refuse service to people, and I would want to if they looked shady, but in today's world of lawsuits for discrimination, you can't just tell someone that you refuse to sell to them because they don't look like a good person.

But, I must admit that I was a bit appaled at the FFL's activities. Yes, they are only th one percent, and they are not representative of many FFL's, but some of those people should be punished. One Sports Authority salesman stood there and told the buyers that they were all commiting a serious felony as he sold the gun. He should be punished for commiting a crime. Let's not demonize all FFL's because of the %1 of bad ones (he wasn't even an FFL, just a dork salesman anyway!), let's weed out the bad ones and punish some to the point where no more of them want to risk breaking the law.

I called Bob Swanson once, before I knew what a "straw man" sale was, and told him I wanted to buy a P7M13, but I would have to have my friend come buy it because I couldn't get an FFL to receive it for me. He said "sorry, that is a straw man sale, and I can't risk that...this is my livelihood". I said "sorry, I never heard that term and did not know it was illegal". This was almost a year ago.

Not all dealers are bad...in fact even the enemy states that only %1 are bad...so %99 are good. Try to find %99 good people in any group. We will never rid ourselves of the small percentage of people that ruin it for everyone, but we can try to punish them instead of all the good ones.

thaddeus
 
Actually, IS it illegal? Person "A" has the right to buy a gun. They do so. They then sell it to person "B", either seconds or years afterwards. Now, if person "A" had a right to sell the gun to person "B", (As I presume Kam's wife did.) what makes that a crime? Now, if "A" DOESN'T have the right to sell to "B", a crime certainly IS being committed... By "A". But I'd have to guess that most people who buy guns to resell to criminals do NOT anounce that intention to the gun dealer. In fact, I'd say it's probably so rare that a dealer, faced with somebody who had a purchase permit, and who said something about being a felon, or intending to sell the gun to a crook, might reasonably take it for a joke. Has the "Joke free zone" which began in airports been expanded to cover gun shows?
 
Brett...
You make a good point, i.e. is it really illegal?

Charges would likely stick, but it was achieved wrongly. There is no Fed law at the present time outlawing private sales without NICS, and the private citizen has no meqans to check the records of another...to my knowledge, that is illegal (conflicts with right to privacy). So, it seems that the law against straw purchases has no other supportive law behind it

After the new crop of gun laws passes, then it will be illegal as they address private transfers, etc.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Thaddeus sez:
A dealer can not just refuse to sell to someone because they look shady. That is called discrimination, and probably racism by the time it got to court.

Some dealers are willing to take that risk.

The shop I go to is just outside downtown Colorado Springs. Lotsa gangsta traffic; every time I'm there (and I'm there a lot), I see kids lurching around, wearing 5-sizes-too-big jeans, and saying such witty things as "Yo, man, how much fo dis Glock?"

Paul will not sell anything, including ammo and accessories, to these geeks.

Discrimination? Try selling that to the folks here. CS isn't what you'd call a bastion of liberalism.

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"America is at that awkward stage.
It's too late to work within the system,
but too early to start shooting the bastards."
--Claire Wolfe
 
connieach,
Ive a friend who lives in bailey now and used to live in littleton, about 8 years ago he was telling me of the gang problems they had there,----the impression I had from our conversations was that California was transporting there gang bangers there, basically the way I heard it was, if you leave the state, and not return we wont prosecute?,,,,Is that really whats goin on?.....fubsy.
 
Fubsy,

I don't know about all that, but Colorado is overrun with Californians (myself included) who want to turn the state into California (myself not included).

We don't have much of a banger presence down here, relatively speaking. Denver, though, is infested with thugs.
 
I am under the impression that the entire "straw purchase" thing, when applied to two people who can legally own firearms, is a matter of INTENT. If person A buys a gun with the intent of transferring it to another person, that is a straw purchase.
If person A buys a gun, shoots it that afternoon, hates it, and sells it to person B.. that is okay.. so long as person B can legally own the gun..
(Under Fed law, I think, state laws differ)

KAM,

Also, so you know, the "Loop Hole" has never been one that involved Dealers.. Dealers are bound to folow the rules whether they sell in their shops, their front ayrds, a gun show, or Burger King. The "loop Hole" is that Gun shows are often meeting places for priovate gun owners, who transfer weapons to one another without Checks...

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-Essayons
 
Rob, If I purchase a Ruger MkII with the intention of giving it to my brother in law
,who can legally own a hangun, for his birthday I have broken the law?
Hank
 
Hank...

Assuming your state doesn't prohibit it, not yet. It probably will be next month though
It is illegal in Calif but wasn't when I was young...my Dad bought me a Single 6 when I was a kid and a Mini-14 when I was 15 or 16.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
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