DASA owners

B

Black Wolf

New member
I am leaning hard towards a 3" DASA but I am getting conflicting information, about it, online.

Some say the frame is cast, some say it is not. Kimber says "machined" from stainless buuut we know there is "machining" left to complete on a cast frame. So, can someone definitively say whether or not the DASA has a cast frame?

Also - while I will most likely feed it 38spc, on range days, I plan on running some INSANELY hot B.B. through it - 180gr JHP @ 1,500 FPS for a total of 899 ft lbs of M.E. Now, obviously they didn't reach those stats out of a 3" BUT it does give an indication the severity of these loads. Is the DASA built to handle an occasional cylinder of that stuff? I know I'd run it through my SP 101 but Ruger ya know
 
Can someone explain the difference between machined from billet and machined from casting?

A billet is material poured into a 3D cubic shaped mold. Then formed by hot worked. Then, I think they face it on all 4 sides before sending it out….

A casting is material poured into a part shaped mold.

:confused:
 
A billet is the raw material (in some shape) from the foundry. Can be square, can be round (bar) could be something else if that's what the customer wants.

The term your looking for is "Forged" and most billets are forged.

Forged vs cast is the old argument. With forging the combination of the heat and pressure (hammering it to shape) aligns the grain of the metal where casting does not.

Forged steel is stronger than cast steel OF EQUAL THICKNESS.

And this is what Ruger knew and did. Using the lost wax casting process, he was able to make revolver frames that needed much, much less machining than cutting the frame out of a forged billet.

Ruger also knew that, for equal strength his frames had to be thicker than forged ones, and (I believe) he intentionally made them thicker yet, which made them more than just as strong as a forged frame enough but very strong.

I believe his ideas was, "if I have to be a bear, might as well be a Grizzly!" or something along those lines....;)
 
If I were going to shoot "insanely hot" cartridges I wouldn't pick the Kimber.

I have a rifle hunting load in .357 Mag that works really good. A compressed charge of H110 over a 125gr soft nosed bullet.

Primers will flatten out in anything other than my GP100 and rifles. There are some very nice distributor exclusive 3" GP100's out there. I think the gun and you would handle those loads better with the Ruger.

The premise of the K6S was to be the smallest and lightest 6 shot .357 Mag handgun, not the strongest or most comfortable.
 
Yea, this is kind of what I'm talking about. I know Rugers are cast, they're also thick. In fact, back in the late 80' or early 90's S&W had an add with a picture of a milk shake and a cheese burger and some snarky comment about how "thicker" is better with some things but not handguns. I know one point of the DASA was to be the thinnest 6 shot 357. So... thin, forged and 20% stronger (the general rule between cast and forged) or just thinner. See what I mean?

I'll call Kimber today, ask them whether or not they feel their gun can handle B.B.

To be honest, I'm stuck on the dove tail sight. I'd just as soon get a 3" SP101, mine is too short (Wow, that sounds bad) but I'm sick of choosing between a gutter sight and a snaggy adjustable. Kimber got it so right.
 
The people you probably should be talking to is Buffalo Bore.

A 180gr .357 @ 1500fps is an amazing claim, but they got 1501fps from a 6" so they're entitled to make the claim.

1500fps was max top end loading for the 158gr bullet out of the original long barrel (8 3/4") S&W Registered Magnums. Buffalo Bore got it with a bullet about 15% heavier, from a barrel about 25% shorter. Amazing!!

TO be clear, I "don't have a dog in this fight" as I don't use Buffalo Bore ammo, and don't run 180gr slugs in my .357s. But I am a fan of Buffalo Bore's attitude.

They won't tell you what powder they use, they won't tell you the load, and they won't tell you the pressure. Because they don't HAVE to. And, from what I've heard they're happy to tell SAAMI to go pound sand. I rather like that. :D

They test their ammo in actual guns, and tell you it is safe IN THOSE GUNS. And they'll tell you not to consider it safe in any other guns, because they haven't tested it in those guns.

So, I'd give them a call and ask if they've tested that ammo in the DASA. I heard they say not to use the 180 load you're talking about in J frame guns.

I don't know the DASA personally, but considering its said to be the smallest lightest 6 shot .357 I doubt I'd run BB ammo in one, even if BB tested it and said it was safe.

Because there is a difference between safe and suitable. SAFE means it won't damage the gun. Suitable means it will work well (and not damage the gun). Its not impossible that BB ammo will be safe, but stick in YOUR chambers. I've run hot loads that worked fine in my N frame but needed a rod and a hammer to get the brass out of a K frame. Safe but not suitable in THAT K frame. Mabye ok in others maybe not.

If BB has not tested the DASA with their ammo, then you are entirely on your own if you shoot it.

Additionally, and also probably putting it into the "unsuitable" category will be the recoil in the light gun. I would expect it to be on the painful end of "harsh". Possibly worse...:rolleyes:

Good luck, have fun, BE SAFE!
 
Buffalo Bore says:

"BUFFALO BORE HEAVY 357 MAG
180 gr. JHP (1,500fps/M.E. 899 ft. lbs.)
This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver - this includes J-frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo."

I figure that "safe" means that it isn't going to blow up your gun.
But I doubt you can shoot it every weekend for very long without wearing out your gun.

I could not find a www version of the 1971 tests by H.P. White which the antis hoped to produce a functional characterization of the "Saturday Night Special" which was the then bugaboo niche now filled by "assault weapons."
But their standard procedure included firing tests with a proof round every hundred shots in 500 increments. I recall the 1971 program expected a "good gun" to go 5000 rounds like that. But it didn't work out that way.


I looked up some steel making terms.
A "billet" is what you get when you pour molten steel into an ingot mold, then roll the ingot into a square or rectangular shape. Or roll down the output from "continuous casting" a fascinating process.

If you take that billet and roll it some more you produce "bar stock." There you get into hot rolling and cold rolling, but that is getting into more detail than needed for naming conventions.

I always think of a "forge" as a drop forge hammering metal into rough shape, and do not include a rolling mill under that name.
But hey, it's the internet, you can call it what you like.
 
Thank you, that actually makes a lot of sense

I might have confused B.B. with U.W. one of them said they were safe in all 357's but not to use in the ultralight do to the risk of inertia overcoming the crimp on the other rounds in the cylinder. That might have been U.W. The weight/velocity I posted was definitely B.B.

I will give them a call and see. I'm not recoil sensitive. Was shooting a 3" Model 29 when I was a kid AND I'm wouldn't be running these on a regular. Just basically function check em and occasionally rotate them out.

I'll call Kimber and Buffalo Bore. I will also look back at Underwood (I believe they are the ones who said no problems other than ultralight lights) and see if they're getting close to that kinda juice out of their.
 
The issue isn't pressure, it's momentum. Momentum causes recoil, which pulls bullets, buggers up the Cylinder hand, and mashes the revolver into the web of your hand.
The cylinder and barrel are the parts that have to handle the 36k psi, not the frame.
 
To be honest, I'm stuck on the dove tail sight. I'd just as soon get a 3" SP101, mine is too short (Wow, that sounds bad) but I'm sick of choosing between a gutter sight and a snaggy adjustable. Kimber got it so right.
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Ruger has that too. In the GP100 and the SP101
3.jpg

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Momentum causes recoil, which pulls bullets, .....
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Technically incorrect. You've got things reversed.

Momentum doesn't cause recoil. Recoil doesn't pull bullets.

Momentum doesn't cause anything. It is the term used to describe the properties of a moving object as a product of its mass and velocity. Momentum doesn't exist until an object starts moving. It is not the cause, it is a calculated result.

Recoil does not pull bullets. It LOOKS like it does, but that's not what really happens. What happens (in a revolver) is that because of the way the ammunition is held in the gun, recoil does not pull the bullet, it pulls the case off the bullet. This happens because the bullet has more inertia than the case does.

Crimp jump or bullet creep are the common terms to describe what happens. The bullet isn't actually pulled by anything.
 
I have the 4" DASA. It is a quality firearm and assume it would handle any factory .357 Magnum load without issue.

Kimber's intro into the revolver market was back in 2016. With the DASA coming around in 2020. While they haven't been out for an extremely long period of time, I imagine we would have started to hear about issues if they couldn't hold up to reasonable round counts.
 
44 AMP said:
Technically incorrect. You've got things reversed.

Momentum doesn't cause recoil. Recoil doesn't pull bullets.

Momentum doesn't cause anything. It is the term used to describe the properties of a moving object as a product of its mass and velocity. Momentum doesn't exist until an object starts moving. It is not the cause, it is a calculated result.

Recoil does not pull bullets. It LOOKS like it does, but that's not what really happens. What happens (in a revolver) is that because of the way the ammunition is held in the gun, recoil does not pull the bullet, it pulls the case off the bullet. This happens because the bullet has more inertia than the case does.

Crimp jump or bullet creep are the common terms to describe what happens. The bullet isn't actually pulled by anything.
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The momentum of the bullet does indeed cause recoil.

I was attempting to steer the discussion about cast versus forged frames. Often folks confuse the pressure effects with the bullet's momentum effect on a gun. Withstanding the 36kpsi of the 357mag is fairly straightforward. But building a very lightweight revolver that won't beat itself to death from the momentum of the bullet is another matter. And of course, the recoil velocity matters to the shooter's hand and directly effects the cartridges in the cylinder.
 
Often folks confuse the pressure effects with the bullet's momentum effect on a gun.
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Which is what your statements about bullet momentum are doing.

It is clear you understand the principles but you are confusing the terms.

Bullet momentum only applies to the bullet itself, and what it hits down range.

The force that beats up light weight guns, and your hand, what we call recoil is the gun's momentum. Not the bullet's.

Both come from the same single source, the pressure when a round is fired. That pressure pushes in all directions. It pushes the bullet in one direction, the gun in the opposite direction, with equal force.

It is the gun moving that we feel as recoil. It is not the bullet.

Fire that 357 load from a gun that weighs 29oz and fire it from one that weighs 29lbs. The momentum of both bullets will be identical. The momentum of both guns will be vastly different.

Recoil force is doing what you say it is, it is felt, and it does batter the gun parts (when they are not built strong enough to take it) but that force is not coming from the bullet, it is coming from the mass of the gun moving.

As to cast vs. forged frames, done right (and if not done right, all bets are off! ;)) both can be of identical strength. To match the strength of the forged part, the cast part has to be thicker. Size may, or may not be a matter of concern, depending on your personal requirements. Strength & safety will be the same.
 
Fire that 357 load from a gun that weighs 29oz and fire it from one that weighs 29lbs. The momentum of both bullets will be identical. The momentum of both guns will be vastly different.
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Nope.
The momentum will be the same, gun momentum south equals bullet momentum north but with opposite vector signs + and -.

The heavier gun's recoil velocity and energy will be less, which are major components of FELT recoil. The old school of shotgunning focused on gun velocity, how much could be tolerated without "gun headache."
 
Apologies, used the wrong word. The calculated momentum of both guns will be equal the MOVEMENT of the guns will be vastly different.
 
44 AMP said:
Which is what your statements about bullet momentum are doing.

It is clear you understand the principles but you are confusing the terms.

Bullet momentum only applies to the bullet itself, and what it hits down range.

The force that beats up light weight guns, and your hand, what we call recoil is the gun's momentum. Not the bullet's.

Both come from the same single source, the pressure when a round is fired. That pressure pushes in all directions. It pushes the bullet in one direction, the gun in the opposite direction, with equal force.

It is the gun moving that we feel as recoil. It is not the bullet.

Fire that 357 load from a gun that weighs 29oz and fire it from one that weighs 29lbs. The momentum of both bullets will be identical. The momentum of both guns will be vastly different.

Recoil force is doing what you say it is, it is felt, and it does batter the gun parts (when they are not built strong enough to take it) but that force is not coming from the bullet, it is coming from the mass of the gun moving.

As to cast vs. forged frames, done right (and if not done right, all bets are off! ;)) both can be of identical strength. To match the strength of the forged part, the cast part has to be thicker. Size may, or may not be a matter of concern, depending on your personal requirements. Strength & safety will be the same.
Click to expand...
The force applied to the gun is the equal and opposite reaction to accelerating the mass of the bullet. Pressure is a misnomer since I can apply phenomenal pressure very slowly (hydraulic) and the gun would experience no "recoil" as the bullet crept down the barrel.

Fun stuff - I like these discussions better than "whats my favorite powder for 45acp".
The mass of the powder turned to gas will add significantly to the "recoil" when it is ejected after the bullet, since the higher the temperature, the higher the pressure and then the higher the ejected velocity (to a point).
 
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