Damascus barreled shotgun - Can it be fired at all?

A

aarondhgraham

New member
A friend is going to give me his great-grandfathers double-barrel 12 gauge,,,
I've seen the gun before and it is a very pretty gun,,,
But it does have Damascus steel barrels.

At least I think they are Damascus,,,
If you look very closely you can see spiral-like metal.

The thing is I really don't want guns I can't shoot every now and then.

Are there cartridges made that are safe to shoot in these older shotguns?

One man told me to load black-powder cartridges for it,,,
But I don't reload at all and wouldn't know how.

If there is a way I can shoot the old gal occasionally I'll gladly accept the gift,,,
If there isn't any safe way to shoot it I think I'll pass on it.

I am near completely ignorant about old shotguns,,,
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks gentlemen,,,

Aarond

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Let me stop you right there. A shotgun as old as the one he is giving you should be taken as a gift and cherished. Personally, I would suggest he keep it in his family but if he is giving it to you then take it. It may have some monetary value or collectors value down the road. Even if it doesn't it has sentimental value of your friendship.

Shotguns that old should be taken to a competent gun smith prior to shooting so that they can verify it is in working order, especially if you aren't familiar with older shotguns. There is nothing wrong with having a gun in your collection that you don't shoot but pass down through the generations. It makes for some awesome memories with your children and grand children.

Even if you can't shoot it, why not gladly accept a piece of history?
 
To answer your question "Can it be fired"?, the answer is a definite MAYBE. There are a LOT of old guns being used, some dating as far back as the 1840's, so it is not impossible.
There are firms who make cartridges of the proper chamber size (most likely 2-1/2", NOT 2-3/4") and of low pressure.

Before anything, however, it needs a thorough going over by a QUALIFIED double gunsmith. I would check on www.doublegunshop.com. Those folks live, eat and breathe double guns, especially older ones.

What marks, if any, are on the barrels (both top and undersides, as well as on the barrel flats of the actions)?
 
+1 on the previous two comments. They have offered you the good advise - now let me tell you why. Damascus barrels have two inherent problems. First, even when they are in good shape they can only handle low-pressure rounds. They were made for shotshells using black powder.

Secondly (and this is where the gunsmith comes in), damascus barrels can look perfectly great on the outside but can have deteriorated on the inside. Much of this is from the corrosive nature of black powder loads.
 
It is what it is ...

Before anything, however, it needs a thorough going over by a QUALIFIED double gunsmith. I would check on www.doublegunshop.com. Those folks live, eat and breathe double guns, especially older ones.
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Totally agree and as you may know, during the transition period when Damascus was being phased out, some folks didn't trust the new steel barrels so they gave them a twist finish and that was eventually phased out. If it were I, I would graciously accept the gift and history even if it winds up being a wall-hanger. ...... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
The make and model matter.
I have seen some cheap guns with fancy Damascus patterns and some very high end guns with very plain twist patterns. The plain stuff is actually stronger.
In those days, even the name brands used a quality of barrel metal in proportion to the grade of the gun.

I know there is British Nitro proof Damascus and there are fine old American makes with good quality Damascus that did just fine with smokeless when new. But, as said, corrosion in the welds is the wild card.

Get live hands on expert inspection before you shoot.
 
I second the use of the word "qualified" for a double gun smith. I once had an "expert gunsmith" (he was about 17) tell me that Damascus barrel guns were stronger than solid steel because the barrels were like springs, they expanded and then came back into shape like a clock spring!!!

I have sectioned old Damascus barrels that blew. I recall one that looked good on the outside and even in a look through the bore. Yet, under that polish was a mass of what looked like orange wool; I could push a center punch through that barrel.

I know I will get flak, especially from the Anglophiles who will inform me (loudly) that British guns cannot possibly blow up and that I am full of whatever, but I strongly recommend not firing any, and I mean ANY, shotgun with Damascus, twist, or laminated barrels, even with black powder.

Jim
 
Question starts an argument every time. snicker. However, Damascus barrels are unsafe to shoot with any ammo because one does not have any idea how well the thing has been cared for over time. The BP used in 'em, originally, is not the same as BP used now either.
It's the salts from the BP that get into the tiny cracks and fissures in the steel that cause rust. If those salts weren't meticulously removed, the barrel will blow, eventually.
 
Well, my question has been answered,,,

Well, my question has been answered,,,
I think I'll pass on the old gun.

I'm certain he'll be able to find it a good home.

It's just a thing of mine that I don't want to own any wall hangers.

Perhaps it's from when I was a kid and got them as presents,,,
Mom and Pop (bless their hearts) knew I was a gun nut,,,
But they never bought me a gun I could shoot.

Honestly, before I was 10 years old I owned 5-6 guns,,,
One was a Belgian flintlock trade rifle,,,
One was a cap and ball musket.

I has some seriously nice antiques,,,
But what I really wanted was a blankety-blank .22. :o

Pop told me later on in life that they hoped I would be satisfied with just owning guns for display.

He hunted and trapped for money as a kid in the 1930's,,,
He couldn't understand why anyone would want to hunt or shoot in modern times.

I eventually got some guns that actually fired,,,
But they all came from mowing lawns.

But that's neither here nor there.

I thank you gentlemen for your posts and advice,,,
I believe I'll let him give it to someone who will better appreciate it.

Aarond

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Can it be fired? Sure.

SHOULD it be fired? That's an entirely different question.

Could it end up hurting or even killing him if he fired it? That's the $64,000 question.

Would I fire it? Hells to the NO!
 
I have an old 20ga SXS with rabbit ear hammers and damascus barrels that belonged to my great grandfather. My dad let me start with it and I killed a lot of squirrel and quail along with a few rabbit back in the early 1970's. I bought my own, "modern" shotgun about 1974 or so.

I didn't know what damascus barrels were until later. I'd love for my son and grandsons to be able to shoot it, but I'm just not going to risk it. I put hundreds of shells though it for several years with no issues. But that was 40 years ago.
 
If I had a really, Really, REALLY nice high quality famous name shotgun with Damascus barrels, I would either get a set of Briley Skeet Tubes for occasional shooting in a smaller gauge, $595 for one gauge; or I would pay them $2695 to monobloc and sleeve it with steel barrels and use it all the time.
 
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However, Damascus barrels are unsafe to shoot with any ammo because one does not have any idea how well the thing has been cared for over time.
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Simply not true.

I would either get a set of Briley Skeet Tubes for occasional shooting in a smaller gauge, $595 for one gauge; or I would pay them $2695 to monobloc and sleeve it with steel barrels and use it all the time.
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And these ideas are also an excellent way to enjoy an old gun and also done all the time.
 
Me I would in all likelihood shoot it unless it was just a rust bucket, however I do not recommend you do it. I grew up shooting 2 3/4 smokeless shells out of them. I didn't know any better and I guess dad didn't either. He had an affection for old shotguns, especially old rabbit ear doubles and there were always a few around the house. Most of them didn't stay long because he had a greater affection for money and would sell just about anything he had if he could make a buck off it. I have an 1850ish SXS I shoot and I have a Lancaster SXS I cut shells down for and reload with black. Point is I'm not as afraid of them as most people are or maybe I'm just not as smart as most people are. :D
 
I have told this before, so please forgive a repeat. I once had a man come in with an old Damascus gun in only so-so condition. I told him not to shoot it. He told me that it was perfectly safe and that his granddaddy... you know the story.

A week later he came back in with a bandage on his left hand; the gun had let go and taken two fingers and part of a third with it. "I should have listened," he said.

Of course, he used smokeless powder, never a good idea, though the "Damascus is perfect" folks claim to do it all the time, even using magnum loads.

The main problem is that rapidly burning BP exerts its pressure back where the barrels are thick. Progressive burning smokeless keeps the pressure up out past where the barrel thins down, which happens to be about the end of the foreend, right where the shooter's off hand grasps the gun.

Sure, a well made and maintained Damascus gun might hold up to heavy loads, even smokeless loads. Sure, British owners of some such guns have had them nitro proved and they took it OK. But a proof test, by its nature, ends with a seal of approval or pieces of scrap iron. Few owners of nice old guns want to take a chance on having them proved and converted to junk if they are wrong. Better the wall than the recycle bin, IMO. (And even proof with one round does not guarantee that the gun won't blow on the next one.)

Jim
 
All this qualified gunsmith stuff is a bunch of hooey. The most qualified gunsmith on the planet does not have magic eyes that will allow him (or her) to see if there are any issues with the joints between the strips used to form the barrels anywhere other than on the exterior surface. The most likely exposure to harmful chemicals was on the inside. Dye penetrant or mag particle is only usable on the outside. X-Ray examination has shown some promise. The ONLY way I would feel 100% safe is if I fired a proof load of some fashion - remotely with a string - before shooting it. But, lots of folks do shoot them. It's your gun, your eyes and everything else; your decision.
Note - my definition of a proof load is one that produces pressures greatly in excess of any rounds that will be fired in the gun afterward. That could be a fairly stout smokeless load, to be followed by black powder loads only.
 
Thanks again gentlemen,,,

I told my friend that I would pass on it,,,
We also had a long conversation about not shooting it.

He asked if it could be disabled somehow,,,
I said a gunsmith could easily pull the firing pins.

He might keep it as a wall hanger.

Thanks again gentlemen.

Aarond

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Every visible line on a damascus barrel is a potential failure spot. Every line is a hammer-welded joint, and those joints can corrode from the inside even if the gun has never been fired and was cleaned weekly.
Add firing corrosive black powder-which forces the powder residue into minute cracks in the welds on the inside of the barrels, and you have the potential for disaster.:eek:
 
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