DA/SA vs. DAO

L

long shot

New member
I've owned Glocks for a few years, & don't have much experience with da/sa or heavier dao trigger systems.

I'm looking at buying a .40 in something like a Sig, Beretta or HK. Being used to the consistent pull of Glocks, should I stick w/ dao, or would da/sa be the better choice?

All opinions are appreciated!

Best,
{long shot}
 
The DAO was developed because LE agencies found officers who were trained in revolvers had difficulty transitioning to pistols with DA/SA pull. After a lot of hair pulling and failing to teach guys to handle the DA pull (followed by subsequent SA pulls), LE asked the mfgs to develop the DAO pistol.

Once adopted, the old time revolver trained cops had little problems transitioning from revovler to pistol. Same long trigger pull for every shot made it easier.

Now, for civilians, DA/SA is fine because a civilian will generally spend more time mastering his firearm than many cops do. They can spend all day practicing DA by merely decocking the firearm. Training time or range time for LE doesn't permit this.

Turning to your case Longshot, how much effort are you willing to put in to mastering the DA trigger? If you can put the time in, then get the DA/SA. Be sure you can get first shot hits on DA before you even play with SA. Once you've got that down, work on drills involving one DA followed by one SA. Then one DA followed by two SA (for speed). If you don't have the time, then go DAO. JMHO.
 
I've seen more than a couple relitively experience/practiced shooters with DA/SA pistols who invariably send their first shot low, their second shot high, third shot more or less on target.

Every trigger pull takes time and effort to master. A gun that has two different pulls will take more time to master. I would say that it will take _at_least_ twice as much time and practice.

DA/SA pistols are a compromise between lawyers (DA)that advise agencies and shooters (SA) that try to procure decent weapons for those that work for the agency. The ironic part is that the result is worse for both parties than if there had been no compromise.

To wit, If you train enough to master a gun with two triggers you will be trained enough to be safe with a SA only gun that will more accurate and faster. If you dont train enough to master two pulls your proficiency will be less than if you had only attempted to learn 1 pull.

Thats how I see it FWIW.
 
i'm not a fan of the DAO trigger system. i love my glocks consistant trigger pull but i do not consider it a DAO gun. the pull is much lighter and different than other DAO guns. i also have several DA/SA guns. i don't shoot them as well as my glocks because i tend to pull the first DA shot off center but i'm sure if i spent more time with them i could master the trigger. berettas, sigs and HKs are all great guns. i have 2 berettas and wouldn't mind having a sig. if you got an HK USP or USP compact you can modify it to any variant you want. you can make it single action, DA/SA or DAO. berettas have somewhat heavy DA pulls but its smooth and the SA pull on them is pretty easy. i also feel berettas are the most reliable of the 3. however from what i remember of shooting sigs (although i haven't shot one in a while) the trigger is pretty good on it. the DA was heavy but very smooth and the SA was light and very easy. you can't go wrong with any of these guns but hey you could just get another glock and not worry about a DA pull. :-)
 
I had no problem going from colt(sa) to sig (da/sa)My forst round goes where it is supposed to go.It takes a little more range time but it a easy learn.Practice your double action with the decocker.I still shoot at least 2 mags DA per shoot.I allso shot DA in IDPA match and had no problems.Try the sig I think you will like it.By the way i shoot the P220.

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
There are DA pulls and DA pulls--lots of bad ones, quite a few mediocre ones, and too few really good ones. Semiautos are usually cursed with the first two, mainly because of the geometry and leverages involved. Compare one with the lockwork of a S&W revolver and you will wonder how they manage it at all. A good DA should be smooth, even, and the hammer fall a consistent surprise by virtue of that smoothness. The sheer shootability of a good DA revolver, to me, outweighs its theoretical disadvantages.

As to the SIG, I finally got a 220 in std DA/SA a few years ago. I got to wondering if DAO was a good way to go and had it converted to DAO at the factory. Also had the 'trigger enhancement job' done and shortened the trigger. Spent the next couple of years, off and on, trying to prove my case. No matter what I did, I could still shoot the DA revolver better on a bad day than I could the DAO SIG on a good day. I finally converted it back to DA/SA, do ok with it now. All this was after years as an LEO instructor, SIG armorer's school, and shooting quite a few SIGS over the years. I still carry the revolver, but suspect if I carried and shot the SIG for 20 yrs plus I would be fairly proficient with it too. Your mileage may vary but that was my experience. FWIW.

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The DA/SA is actually an old which came to us by the way of Germany. The Walther PPK and P38 both had these features and were introduced back in the old days. If you were to examine the P38, it's locking block design is currently used in the Beretta 92 and Taurus 92. The firing pin block safety and manual decocking safety design was copied by S&W in developing the M39 pistol (which is progenitor of all S&W pistols).
 
Gary, I must respectfully disagree as to the impetus toward DAO. The inital reason was that officers were occasionally thumb cocking their revolvers to SA, with untold UIDs and several fatalities occurring as a result. Many agencies had their wheelguns 'modified' to DAO.

When the transition to Semis became more and more prevalent, the DA/SA generally got the nod. I feel that it was primarily because that's what S&W MADE, and they were thoroughly entrenched in the 'hearts and minds' of police brass. Then, the quality Beretta and Ruger were soon recognized also. But the fact remained that after the first shot was fired, the cop was now holding a cocked pistol. Re-read paragraph one.

I think that Miami PD is porbably why we have the Glock so prevalent in LE today. Certainly Glock is why we even HAVE other DAOs to choose from now. After Miami had modified their wheelies, the Union was crying out for want of a duty semi-auto. The Chief at the time rather flippantly responded to the effect <I'll authorize one if you can find it in DAO> They presented the Glock, and there's no arguent that it cannot be cocked.

After a long journey along this path, I settled for DAOs primarily. There is nothing wrong with SAs either. The point is, I DO feel that one gets the best performance from mastering only ONE trigger. I would not be so selfish as to impose that choice on anyone else.
 
I hate DAO. I love my Glock but that is not considered full DAO, as previously mentioned. I would go with a DA, as you can fire it either DA or SA. SA will give you a nicer pull but DA will allow a fast draw and fire. The only advantage I can see in DAO is less snags for concealed carry.
 
longshot; I had a Berreta Centurian 9mm in DAO. The trigger pull was long but oh so smooth. Good shooting can be done with a DAO pistol, justs takes some practice. Good Luck, J. Parker
 
I'm not the world's greatest pistol user.

But I have come to the point where I ask - WHY DA?

DAO came from DA/SA users needing to learn 2 trigger pulls.

But where did the DA in DA/SA come from? Is seeing a cocked hammer THAT scary?

The trigger pulls in these guns is compromised over a SA only trigger.

I may be sounding like a typical 1911-philiac here. Not necessarily. Even for those who think that the 1911 is unsafe, series 80 has a firing pin block, and SA only from other companies could always include the obligatory 5 safeties to ensure mechanical safety of the weapon when trigger is not being pulled.

I'm sure many here can shoot DA quicker/better than I can shoot SA. But why handicap oneself?


Battler.
 
I prefer guns with a consistent trigger pull. Note that with the HK, you can carry it cocked and locked. Also, the DA trigger pull on my HK USP Compact .45 is absolutely awful. Can't say as I'd want to try a DAO USP.

I'm not very good with DA/SA -- I find it hard to get two quick, accurate shots. I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that it takes more time to learn that it takes to learn to operate the safety of an M1911.

As for Glocks, I'm not a fan of the Glock trigger. I find it hard to master. My front sight wanders when the striker finally makes that sickening crunch.

I love my Kahrs, though they do have a longer stroke than the Glocks, and are thus a little slower to shoot.

Most DA/SAs which are sold as DAOs simply have the SA disabled. The S&W DAOs, on the other hand, have a trigger pull which is lighter and shorter than the DA pull of their DA/SAs. The 3953 and 4053 are supposed to be quite nice.

Jared
 
Hmmmm. I'm assuming that most SA/DA autos CAN be carried cocked & locked. Under those circumstances, you'd never encounter the DA mode. You'd be shooting SA at all times...am I right?

Anyway, that's why I'm a fan of SA. The trigger is always the same, and its always crisper than DAO.
 
Actually, it is my impression that the DA/SA pistol that can be carried cocked and locked is not the norm. It can be done with the CZ-75/Tanfoglio/EAA type, and some of the HK's, I think, but most of the others use the safety lever as a decocker, so cocked and locked is not an option.

Others may be able to add to my list.
 
I agree with HumpMan, there are few DA/SA which can be carried cocked and locked. Sigs have no manual safety, only a decocker. S&W DA/SAs have an integral decocker-safety; applying the safety decocks the pistol. The Beretta 92 safety behaves like the S&W, it decocks the pistol. Of the more well known brands in the US right now, the HK USP is the only one I can think of that can be carried cocked and locked.

M1911
 
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