CZ75b vs Sphinx SDP compact

[chewie676]

Hi everyone. I recently found at a LGS the Sphinx SDP compact. According to my understanding Sphinx is like the pinnacle of a production grade CZ.
I´ve seen that there is a big difference when it comes to prices of these guns. For some reason they worth about the same here in my country (being both expensive) I´m afraid I will have to sell my CZ to afford the Sphinx.
My CZ has been great for several years and about 4000 rounds.
I´ll like to hear your opinion. Is the Sphinx good enough to trade my CZ?

I´ll greatly appreciate your thoughts.

Good shooting

 

[UZO]

I have been shooting CZs for many years and own 'a bunch'... from the CZ-82-CZ-75B-CZ-P01, SP-01, etc...
and they are great pistols and a very good value.
About a year ago I purchased an SDP Compact for about $850 (CZ-75Bs are about $500+). The quality of the pistol is exceptional, both internals and exterior finish, and it was a flawless shoot. I have owned many, many pistols and I would have to say, for a 'stock' gun, the accuracy of the Sphinx would definitely be in the top 5%. For me, the 'hand-fit' was perfect and it was simply point-and-shoot.
If dollars are not an issue, I would get one. They are expensive, however, if you want ONE 9mm that's top-of-the-line, the SDP would be it. Honestly, shooting it next to a CZ-75B or P-01, which I have done many times... there is no comparison. The Sphinx IS a top-of-the-line pistol.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I have an SDP that is stock except for me changing the hammer springs to a lighter (17 lb.) CZ compact hammer spring. I also have a very refined P228 that was upgraded (before I bought it) by Gray Guns with it's Reduced Reset Comprehensive Duty Package, a $300+ enhancement.

The guns are very similar, and perform about the same -- very well. Both can can be found in the same $800-$1,100 range on GunBroker. The latest incarnation of the P-228 -- the SIG M11A1 --probably won't have as nice a trigger as the SDP unless you give it a trigger/action job. About the only thing that needs to be done to the SDP is to install a lighter CZ compact hammer spring -- which is very inexpensive and it can be done in a minute or two.

 

[Worc]

The Sphinx has very good quality and is a unique design with the two piece frame. I like the grip on the Sphinx better than any CZ I've held or shot even though it could be a touch longer for my hand/s. The Sphinx also has a better trigger than any out of the box CZ trigger I've felt except for a P-01 SDP which is well over a grand. While the Sphinx ha a pretty good trigger, it not near as good as say a Sig especially with the SRT.

My SDP is pretty accurate but, not on the same level as my 226 or PPQ.

If you want a gun that stands out from the crowd, has real quality, decent trigger, comfortable grip, and a above average accuracy. The Sphinx SDP might the model the fills the bill.

 

[pylonguy]

I too have been on the fence about buying a SDP as well. I was sold at "highly-refined CZ".

I really wish I could find one for rent at a local range, since they are not cheap guns. But no such luck.

I feel like the SDP Compact is far more common than the full size, including on gun review sites. Any particular reason for this?

I feel like the Compact would be comparable to the P229 and the full size would be the size of P226.

 

[Worc]

The SDP compact version was released before the other sized models and likely the reason you see more on this size.

Yes the SDP compact is similar in size to the Sig 229 and the full size is closer to the 226.

I've shot a half dozen other SDP compacts other than my own. I guess it depends on where you are.

 

[sigarms228]

The Sphinx SDP looks really nice but I am mostly concerned about reports that one may need a hydraulic press to remove the pins needed to service the pistol possibly even to just have to change a trigger return spring. I believe that is why CGW will not work on them anymore. I don't want to own a pistol that needs to go back to the factory for what should be minor maintenance.

 

[rt11002003]

I took my Sphinz SDP compact to the range again on 3-1-16, shooting it with a DW Guardian 9mm, a SIG p239 SAS Gen 2 9mm, a HK p30sk V1 9mm, a Para 9mm and a Ruger Mark iii Target .22lr (significantly modified with Volquartsen parts, assisted with a Simmons scope).

The Ruger was the best by far in accuracy and mechanical functioning.

The SDP was a really, really close second best, but it is bone stock. I keep forgetting just how good a gun it is. The SIG is close behind it. The DW should be as good, or better than any of them. But, because it has such a spread between POA and POI, I just can't warm up to it. It's a quality made gun, expensive; and should have come better shooting than it does.

I highly recommend the SDP. I'd compare it to my SIG p210 6, if the trigger on the SDP had a lighter pull.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I highly recommend the SDP. I'd compare it to my SIG p210 6, if the trigger on the SDP had a lighter pull.

A spring kit from CGW or just a 16lb. or 17lb. CZ compact hammer spring can make all the difference in the world. Swapping out the hammer spring, once you get it from Wolff, takes a minute or two. (Some folks run 13 lb. springs, I'm told -- but I like 17 lb. springs best.)

I wish you could use the CZ Kadet Kit with the SDP -- you can't.

I had a SIG P-210-6 myself, some years back. Very accurate. Marvelous gun, but I consider the SDP more practical (if not as accurate.)

 

[Cyanide971]

Had a Sphinx SDP compact myself last year that unfortunately, had to get rid of for financial purposes. It is definitely a very fine pistol indeed. Probably the wrong choice of words, but to me it was like an almost identical twin to the CZ P-07 that was a hand fitted custom build (concerning external appearance & dimensions).

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The SDP and a Custom Shop or CGW tuned P-07 probably do perform a lot alike. The main difference is the grips -- with the P-07 giving you less options. In other respects the feel quite similar. (I've have a P-07 in well-used but stock condition, it shoots very well!)

Internally, they are quite different.

 

[Worc]

I highly recommend the SDP. I'd compare it to my SIG p210 6, if the trigger on the SDP had a lighter pull.

I have a CGW spring kit in my SDP with a lighter hammer spring. It's still far from being as light as my 226 and the 226 does not have a flat spot in it's travel. You ca always add lighter springs to a Sig just as you can to the Sphinx.

The SDP's quality is its best attribute.

 

[bac1023]

I think the quality of the older Sphinx pistols, like the AT2000S is comparable to a late model P210. I think people get a little carried away with these production grade Sphinx SDP pistols.

They are good quality mass-produced production pistols. They are no P210 or even close, in my opinion. They are much closer to CZ quality than P210 quality as far as I'm concerned. The "Made in Switzerland" factor clouds people's judgement a bit, I believe. They are good guns, but let's not get carried away here.

Now an AT2000S is another story. Those are pretty special, in my opinion. Big difference between those an a mass produced SDP.

 

[bac1023]

I had a SIG P-210-6 myself, some years back. Very accurate. Marvelous gun, but I consider the SDP more practical (if not as accurate.)

There are a ton of pistols more practical than a Sig P210, Walt. You can say that about a Glock 19.

Quality-wise, the SDP and P210 are world's apart. The only reason they seem to get compared is because they were built in the same country. Otherwise, you would never hear it. I think its a totally unrealistic comparison. Its almost like comparing a Korth to an HK because they're both German or a Wilson to a Colt because they're both American.

The difference is that there are not many pistols built in Switzerland. Trust me, the Swiss build different grades of quality, just like the others I mentioned.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

There are a ton of pistols more practical than a Sig P210, Walt. You can say that about a Glock 19.

I've had a Glock 19 and Glock 23, it was more practical, but not nearly as accurate. Implicit in that statement was other more positive characteristics shared by the P-210 and SDP.

I said the SDP was more pratical than the P-210(-6) because I didn't like the expensive 8-round mags, and the mag release catch on the butt of the grip -- issues addressed by most newer service pistols. The sights weren't great, either. I tried using it a couple of times in IDPA and some steel plate games, and it was very, very accurate but I never really managed fast-enough mag changes. Newer versions of the P-210 address some of the design's short-coming.

The original P-210 was very practical, and served as a military and police pistol for many years... it was replaced in some places by the SIG P6, which was was just an impractical and less accurate, but much less costly. My P-210-6 came with a proof target showing a 1.75" five shot group done at 50 meters (roughly 55 yards) and I doubt that many P6s could come close to that group size at half the distance.

I guess it just depends on what you consider practical.

Quality-wise, the SDP and P210 are world's apart. The only reason they seem to get compared is because they were built in the same country. Otherwise, you would never hear it. I think its a totally unrealistic comparison. Its almost like comparing a Korth to an HK because they're both German or a Wilson to a Colt because they're both American.

In making your statements about the SDP and the P210 guns, are you speaking from experience, i.e., you've owned and shot a P-210-6 and SDP a lot? Do you have either -- or is your experience limited to handling and shooting both a bit? It would be helpful to understand your familiarity with the guns in question and the basis for your judgements.

rt11002003 who first mentioned to his P-210-6 was apparently talking about the overall shooting experience. He has a lot of high-end guns, custom guns, some of which he has shared with us here on this forum and others. His familiarity with quality guns is based on a lot of first-hand knowledge. I've had a (very) few of these more-refined guns, myself, including two of the Sphinx 2000 guns, a P-210-6, and a S&W Model 52-2, and a SIG P-226 X-Five -- all of which I considered special guns.

As to "Otherwise, you would never hear it," I disagree. I've heard it a several times from folks who normally rave about their SIGs and H&Ks -- they seem to consider the SDP a high-quality gun. I do too, and I've had a bunch of SIGs. (I haven't had any H&Ks.) The only SIG I have at present that even comes close to the SDP is a very refined P228 that has been worked over by Gray Guns. It's quite nice, and very similar to the SDP in most respects. The only real difference is ergonomics, but even there, they are close. Some might like the P228 better, others the SDP.

I've had several 2000-series Sphinx guns and I don't really see that much difference between them and the SDP in fit, finish, or performance. The Swiss gunmakers do make a nice product. I also have a semi-custom AT-84s, from Switzerland, further refined by a great gunmaker here in the the US that is very nice... and a close match to the SDP.

I think some countries do take extra pride in their products -- something I think you can see and feel when comparing an East German (Suhl-made) Makarov to one from Russian -- so the fact that a gun was made in Switzerland isn't something to be ignored.

Even though Sphinx redesigned the gun to require less hand-fitting, that doesn't mean their famouns fit/finish has been degraded. The Sphinx guns are still a cut above some of the guns in the same general price range -- in terms of fit/finish, ergonomics and a close match to most of the others. Some of the CZ Custom Shop- and Cajun Gun Works-upgraded CZs appear to be close matches, too, and just as (or more) costly.

One participant here claims his SIG P226 and Walther PPQ are more accurate than the SDP. I can't dispute the accuracy of his claim but find it hard to believe, given my experience with those guns. It may simply be that those two guns are more accurate in his hands because, somehow, they are a better fit for him. I can understand THAT: I have a CZ P-07 that shoots about as well as any gun I've owned in my hands -- including the SDP -- and the P-07 is NOT a gun that most folks here would consider top-end gun... but it just fits me.

 

[testuser79]

I agree with others, the Sphinx is definitely an upgrade in fit, finish and accuracy over the CZ. Mine will feed with CZ mags and I've heard Canik mags can work. I've also had good luck using +2 Mecgar magazine floorplates.

Unlike others, I never felt like a spring or hammer upgrade is necessary. The hammer spring will naturally break-in and lighten as the pistol breaks-in...after a few months it's smoother than any of my CZ handguns.

 

[bac1023]

As to "Otherwise, you would never hear it," I disagree.

We will disagree about that Walt. I respect your knowledge, but I'm pretty sure it mostly comes from their country of origin. There's a reason a P210 costs what they do. As for the SDP and the AT2000 comparison, we will disagree about that also. The AT2000S was a largely hand built custom pistol. The SDP is curbed out by the thousands. They're almost dime a dozen by comparison and are sold for less today than the AT2000S was sold for 20+ years ago.

rt11002003 who first mentioned to his P-210-6 was apparently talking about the overall shooting experience. He has a lot of high-end guns, custom guns, some of which he has shared with us here on this forum and others. His familiarity with quality guns is based on a lot of first-hand knowledge.

Rt has a very fine collection, no doubt. If he thinks a production SDP is along the lines of a Swiss P210 in terms of quality, than I respect his opinion.

As for first hand knowledge and high end collection variety and quality, I'm fairly confident I can match his and anyone else's on the forum, for that matter.

Everyone has different opinions. The SDP is a good production pistol, in my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't see stars because it's made in Switzerland. I like to look at things realistically and objectively.

 

[AVG]

I bought a Sphinx sub last year. I paid $900.00 for it. Taking it to the range the first time I put 100 rounds of target ammo thru it. When I loaded it with self defense ammo the gun jammed with the loaded round in the chamber. I was unable to pull the slide back had to get the range owner to help me unload the gun. Went home and did a drop test with eight different brands of ammo only three brands would work in this gun. The barrel chamber was out of spec on this gun. Returned the gun to the company and after a month it was returned. Took it to the range and the gun still jammed with self defense ammo. No help from the company they would not send me a RMA. Returned the gun to the gun store were I bought it telling them of the problem with the gun traded it at a loss to me of over $300.00. I have five CZ's will stick with that brand.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

...As for the SDP and the AT2000 comparison, we will disagree about that also. The AT2000S was a largely hand built custom pistol.

I wonder if you're confusing the 2000 line with the 3000 series. A few models of the 2000 sold for close to $2500 -- but they were "competition" guns and were given special attention and added gee-gaws, like Bo-Mar adjustable sights and fancier finishes. The basic 2000 line was a service pistol. My AT2000PS was a "Police Special". My first exposure to the Sphinx line was in the late 90's when I read a review in GUN TESTS magazine. I started looking for one -- I had already discovered CZs. At that time, I think the MSRP of a new Sphinx 2000 was around $1400 if you could find one - roughly 2-3 times the price of a seemingly similar CZ-75. (I got a P-210-6, instead.)

The MSRP for my SDP was $1295, but I got it for a bit less, as have most of the folks who have participated in this discussion. You see them NIB on GunBroker for anywhere from $800 - $1100.

The 3000 line was $3000-$5000 plus, back then -- and rarely observed in the wild except in the European IPSC world.

Sphinx spent a LOT more time on the 3000 line guns than on the 2000 series. I don't think the 2000 line was largely hand built, but I would agree that Sphinx did spend more time doing hand fitting their 2000-line weapons than most gun makers -- and that hand-fitting greatly added to their costs. (The materials used in the 2000 and 3000 lines were basically the same, but the level of craftsmanship required was quite different. Otherwise the costs would have had to have been more similar!)

With improvements in technology (CNC equipment, MIM, or investment casting) less hand work is now required -- but some of that requires the gunmaker to adapt a gun's basic design to work well with the new production methods. That seems to be what Sphinx's new management has done. Sphinx wants to grow and knows that to grow they need a broader customer base. You don't get that bigger market by building and trying to sell costly guns that require a lot of hand work, as labor costs are a killer in Europe. They are trying to do what Henry Ford did when he designed and began producing the model T: created an assembly line that let them sell more units for less money per unit.

The SDP is curbed out by the thousands.

How do you know this? You may be right, but I've seen nothing that tells the public anything about SDP production levels, anywhere... That sort of data is typically jealously guarded by the companies involved.

If you look hard enough a year or so from now, you might from some ATF reports showing how many guns were produced or imported. I would argue that if they were cranking out thousands of SDPs, there'd be more visible evidence of their presence. There doesn't seem to be a glut of Sphinx handguns anywhere.

Rt has a very fine collection, no doubt. If he thinks a production SDP is along the lines of a Swiss P210 in terms of quality, than I respect his opinion.

As for first hand knowledge and high end collection variety and quality, I'm fairly confident I can match his and anyone else's on the forum, for that matter.

OK: I'll ask the same question I asked earlier.

In making your statements about the SDP and the P210 guns, are you speaking from experience, i.e., you've owned and shot a P-210-6 and SDP a lot? Do you have either -- or is your experience limited to handling and shooting both a bit? It would be helpful to understand your familiarity with the guns in question and the basis for your judgements.

I'll respect your opinion as well, and we may just have to disagree. But I'll respect your opinion a bit more if I know your opinion is based on first-hand (you called it DIRECT) experience with the guns in question. Otherwise, your opinion is based more theory on than anything else.

 

[bac1023]

Walt, you and I have had discussions on multiple forums about high end pistols, so I guess you don't recognize my user name like I do yours. I'm not quite sure why you so insist I validate myself.

The 2000 series and 3000 series were both built to the same quality standards. The 3000 series was geared more towards competition in many ways, like some of the 2000 series pistols. Most of the 2000 line were built as super high quality service guns. Yes, in the 1990's, MSRP for a Sphinx AT2000S was about $1400. That's 20 years ago. As my comment stated, they were more then than the SDP line is today. Today, a used AT2000S will routinely bring $2500 - $3000 or more on Gunbroker, in the very rare occasion that they show up for sale. The Police Special models are much more common and not as sought after.

Furthermore, I live and breath high end Euro pistols. I'm fortunate enough to own many Sig P210s, along with several Sphinx pistols and just about every high end pistol that was built. I have handled quite a few SDPs and I can't tell you I'm overly impressed in comparison to the high end Sphinx models. I wasn't speaking about accuracy, I was speaking about build quality. I won't own an SDP, because I'm not impressed with them enough to buy one, regardless of how they shoot. They should be quite accurate, much like a $1100 CZ Tactical Sport is quite accurate. My CZ Tactical Sport can shoot with my P210s very well up to 25 yards or so, but that doesn't put it in the same league from a quality standpoint.

SDP's are built by the thousands. That's common sense. Whenever you can go on Gunbroker and see 50 or more of them for sale after being built for only a couple years, trust me, its a mass produced gun. I've seen several just in local shops around me. I'm not saying they're being churned out by the tens of thousands like Glocks or M&Ps, but they certainly aren't built in a semi custom fashion like the 2000 and 3000 series were.

As far as disagreeing with me, that's fine. However, are you implying that a $900 to $1100 Sphinx SDP is on level playing field with a Sig P210 from a build quality standpoint? I'm confused. If so, I think you're way, way off base.

...and we will very definitely disagree about the main reason the SDP is even compared to the P210 in the first place. There is absolutely no other explanation as to why a $900 production handgun would be compared so often to one of the finest pistols ever built.