Looking to buy a 7.62x25 pistol which of the above would be recommended? Personal experiences wanted I hear they have a big muzzle flash and some umph to them. They are both pretty cheap about $125 for either. That is one of the driving forces in owning one. I also like to collect past military arms. I also know that the CZ52 can be carried cocked and locked and that they are single action. How are the triggers? anybody. Thanks as usual gang. DAROGUE1
cz52 or tokarev
- Thread starter darogue1
- Start date
SouthernShark
New member
Yesterday I had the same problem. I couldn't decide which one to buy. Since I don't like to spend a lot of time making decisions, I just bought both of them. They are both single action.
I disagree on the gun having a lot of "oomph." Using Russian milsurp ammo, I found the recoil to be pretty mild. It does make a heck of a lot of noise though which some people probably confuse as "recoil." Remember recoil is dependant on both power and mass. The mass of the bullet is relatively low.
-SS
I disagree on the gun having a lot of "oomph." Using Russian milsurp ammo, I found the recoil to be pretty mild. It does make a heck of a lot of noise though which some people probably confuse as "recoil." Remember recoil is dependant on both power and mass. The mass of the bullet is relatively low.
-SS
Russian Furry
New member
It really depends what kind of Tokarev you are talking about.
There are 3 major kinds of TT33 that are available.
1. Chinese TT. These guns are frequently junk. Poor machining, nadly put together. some exeptions do exist, however.
2. Polish TT. Much better made. Good quality steel (actualy Chinese also use good steel, they just mil it badly). These guns are good shooters, and thet are cheap.
3. Soviet TT. These are rare. They are very well made, but most of them have been issued and re-arsenaled at some point. Most of them have manual safety installed for importation reaons.
Having said that. If you ever see original Soviet TT33 with no import marks and no manual safety, buy it. They are collector's items. these guns would be pretty havily used, but very nicey made. Quality would be about as good as US M1911A1 of pre-WWII manufacture.
CZ-52 is a good gun, but despite the fact that it is rummored "the strongest pistol built", this gun has never seen real action.
In years that it was used by Chechoslovacian army it was re-arsenaled at least two times, and every time some changes were made to the design of the gun. It does use roller lock, which is normally found in Hk rifles as well as P9 pistol. While interesting in design, this mechanism is quite complex and is not the strongest, or the most reliable. all it takes is for the roller bearing to jam, and it will take a mallot to open the slide. also the firing pins in CZ-52 are made from very hard steel. So hard ir will brake it you dry fire the gun (am not talking about allot of dry firing).
CZ-52 also has a de-cocker, which is somewhat dubius, since it iws a single action gun. Because of firing pin safety you can carry this pistol with round in the chamber and hammer down. The question is why. As far as hot ammo, Soviet TT-33 will withstand it just as well as CZ. After all, TT and PPsh-41 were using the same ammo.
I would nor reecommend ither of these guns for defense carry.
Severe overpenetration conserns.
There are 3 major kinds of TT33 that are available.
1. Chinese TT. These guns are frequently junk. Poor machining, nadly put together. some exeptions do exist, however.
2. Polish TT. Much better made. Good quality steel (actualy Chinese also use good steel, they just mil it badly). These guns are good shooters, and thet are cheap.
3. Soviet TT. These are rare. They are very well made, but most of them have been issued and re-arsenaled at some point. Most of them have manual safety installed for importation reaons.
Having said that. If you ever see original Soviet TT33 with no import marks and no manual safety, buy it. They are collector's items. these guns would be pretty havily used, but very nicey made. Quality would be about as good as US M1911A1 of pre-WWII manufacture.
CZ-52 is a good gun, but despite the fact that it is rummored "the strongest pistol built", this gun has never seen real action.
In years that it was used by Chechoslovacian army it was re-arsenaled at least two times, and every time some changes were made to the design of the gun. It does use roller lock, which is normally found in Hk rifles as well as P9 pistol. While interesting in design, this mechanism is quite complex and is not the strongest, or the most reliable. all it takes is for the roller bearing to jam, and it will take a mallot to open the slide. also the firing pins in CZ-52 are made from very hard steel. So hard ir will brake it you dry fire the gun (am not talking about allot of dry firing).
CZ-52 also has a de-cocker, which is somewhat dubius, since it iws a single action gun. Because of firing pin safety you can carry this pistol with round in the chamber and hammer down. The question is why. As far as hot ammo, Soviet TT-33 will withstand it just as well as CZ. After all, TT and PPsh-41 were using the same ammo.
I would nor reecommend ither of these guns for defense carry.
Severe overpenetration conserns.
Hello all.
Just noticed this thread. I too am considering a CZ52 (can't find a TT).
Is there a source for magazines? I saw three of these at the local gun show yesterday; one had one magazine, and two of them didn't have any at all!
Good price on them, I guess, at around $125. But a single shot?
Casey
Just noticed this thread. I too am considering a CZ52 (can't find a TT).
Is there a source for magazines? I saw three of these at the local gun show yesterday; one had one magazine, and two of them didn't have any at all!
Good price on them, I guess, at around $125. But a single shot?
Casey
Eric Larsen
New member
I have only shot the CZ 52...I will recommend it highly. Its single action gun not a single shot. I believe the mag holds 8 rnds......
They are very accurate...the roller locking mech..is part of a delayed blowback design. While the Tokarev is a locked breech design..
Shoot well
They are very accurate...the roller locking mech..is part of a delayed blowback design. While the Tokarev is a locked breech design..
Shoot well
gunfreak00
Inactive
aim inc. has cz52 mags for around $9 . they also have good deals on surplus and s&b ammo
The majority of CZ-52's were NOT rearsenalled twice. Of the 200,000 produced, 35% were not rearsenalled at all, and the remainder were put through once in the 1970's and very early 1980's. Those that were rebuilt were used for 25 years before rebuilding, roughly the same rate of rebuild that 1911's saw. The CZ does not jam regularly, or much at all (I have never seen one jam) and is not easy to jam. The decocker is no more dubious than the fact that the only safety designed into the Tokarev is a half-cock!
As to carrying the pistol with the firing pin down, why not? A thumb cocking and the pistol is ready to go to battery in the event one is not comfortable with carrying it cocked and locked.
The firing pin is a definite weakness in the design. Don't dry fire, which makes the decocker a nice thing to have. Yet, I have never seen a firing pin fail during firing. I have heard of it happening, sure, but never seen it in person, and I have been around a great many CZ's.
Finally, it is not delayed blowback but actually locked during firing and thus a recoil operated pistol. Remove the slide and operate the barrel manually. You can see it lock and then disengage about a third the way down, about as far as the Toke unlocks. No flames intended.
The Toke is certainly a simpler design with a very proven track record and I would not cast dispersions towards it. However, the knocks against the CZ were a bit exagerated.
Davis
As to carrying the pistol with the firing pin down, why not? A thumb cocking and the pistol is ready to go to battery in the event one is not comfortable with carrying it cocked and locked.
The firing pin is a definite weakness in the design. Don't dry fire, which makes the decocker a nice thing to have. Yet, I have never seen a firing pin fail during firing. I have heard of it happening, sure, but never seen it in person, and I have been around a great many CZ's.
Finally, it is not delayed blowback but actually locked during firing and thus a recoil operated pistol. Remove the slide and operate the barrel manually. You can see it lock and then disengage about a third the way down, about as far as the Toke unlocks. No flames intended.
The Toke is certainly a simpler design with a very proven track record and I would not cast dispersions towards it. However, the knocks against the CZ were a bit exagerated.
Davis
Detachment Charlie
New member
TT-33
Had a WWII, Soviet original Tokarev. Ugly,"but sure could cook." The only auto loader I have ever had that NEVER failed to feed or fire. It had more tool marks than a Soviet tank and rattled about as much as one, also. 4" @ 25 yds. Fired more than 5K of 7.62 & .30 Mauser through it and the trigger never improved from it's gritty original pull. Only the Ruskies could build something this ugly, but entirely functional. Only problem I ever had was breaking the firing pin retaining pin during dry firing - cheap fix for more cheap thrills. Wish I still had it...a great example of a combat handgun.
Had a WWII, Soviet original Tokarev. Ugly,"but sure could cook." The only auto loader I have ever had that NEVER failed to feed or fire. It had more tool marks than a Soviet tank and rattled about as much as one, also. 4" @ 25 yds. Fired more than 5K of 7.62 & .30 Mauser through it and the trigger never improved from it's gritty original pull. Only the Ruskies could build something this ugly, but entirely functional. Only problem I ever had was breaking the firing pin retaining pin during dry firing - cheap fix for more cheap thrills. Wish I still had it...a great example of a combat handgun.
Man, they're both really neat guns.
I've fired both, and I've owned a Tok (and wish I still had it). I think I'd recommend the Tok over the CZ, unless you're planning to do the psycho sabot reloads that folks have been talking about. The CZ is somewhat bigger than the cartridge requires (owing to the Czech's prediliction for warm ammo), and there's the firing pin breakage potential if some idiot dry-fires your pistol.
But they're both really neat guns.
I've fired both, and I've owned a Tok (and wish I still had it). I think I'd recommend the Tok over the CZ, unless you're planning to do the psycho sabot reloads that folks have been talking about. The CZ is somewhat bigger than the cartridge requires (owing to the Czech's prediliction for warm ammo), and there's the firing pin breakage potential if some idiot dry-fires your pistol.
But they're both really neat guns.
I've got a Polish TT33. It's an unissued gun, as many of the Polish pistols are. I bought it as part of my collection, not as a shooter. It's a good thing I didn't expect to shoot this thing much. We're talking about an 18 pound single action trigger! Nice gun, glad I got it, but it doesn't get out of the safe much.
I've owned both. My CZ52 is accurate & reliable. Have never had a misfeed in over 500 rounds of S&B & Czech surplus. I did install a new firing pin that really improved the trigger pull but disables the de-cocker. Not what I would call a nice gun to shoot however, I don't like the grip angle. My TT-33 was a Russian that I found very unpleasant to shoot but it went bang every time I pulled the trigger and accuracy wasn't bad. A typical soviet no-frills firearm. I ended up selling it because I'm more of a shooter then a collector. I would definately consider buying another Tok if someone made some decent grips for them. But not a chinese one!