CZ with CGW Parts: Light Strikes or Something More

T

TunnelRat

New member
Hi all,
So I'm not 100% sure what's going on. I have a CZ P-01 with loads of CGW parts installed by me (I want to preface this by saying this is nothing about CGW parts being bad as from my firsthand experience the parts are top notch, this is likely a poor job installing on my end). I have the Short Reset System, race hammer, and the Reach Reduction Kit. It's on a different level shooting wise. Today however I had some issues at the range.



All three of these cases are from the P-01 on 115 gr Perfecta ammunition and occurred in SA. The above failure to fire occurred 2 or 3 times in 50 rds. The middle has what looks like a light strike. What's curious to me, however, are a number of other observations.

1. I'm surprised at the remarkable difference in impact between the two outer cases and the inner case. When I've seen light strikes on primers before usually it's a matter of slightly less of an impact or a slightly harder primer and the difference isn't as stark. However the middle primer barely has a hit. Coupled with the fact that the SRS included an extended firing pin and I'm almost wondering if the very faint hit is actually a hammer drop that's being stopped by the firing pin block and the outer edge of the firing pin barely touched the primer (pushing on the firing pin with the slide off shows the firing pin go almost to the face of the breechface but not quite so my notion is likely wrong).

2. What's also odd is that when it happens I'm almost positive that it's a matter of me slowly allowing the trigger forward after the slide has cycled and the hammer dropping before the trigger has reset. This seems confirmed by the fact that when it does happen and I keep allowing the trigger to travel forward I hit a click (audible and tactile) where the normal reset point would be and then the trigger travels all the way forward to the DA resting position. This almost makes me think the sear/hammer interaction is off, but no matter of dry firing can replicate the issue (no matter how lightly I release the sear) and pushing up on the hammer when cocked shows no slippage even with all my strength.

My short term solution is to order the 15 lb. hammer spring from CGW as a replacement for the 13.5 lb. spring installed now and maybe a 16 lb. spring from Wolff too. While Perfecta seems to shoot well, it seems notably under powered at times and it wouldn't surprise me if the primers varied greatly in hardness. I post this in case folks have any ideas of other potential causes.

Thanks,
-TR
 
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Talk with David Milam about this -- I think his input would be worth much more than what you'll get here.

Send him the photos or a link to this thread.
 
Email or call dave, he'll get back to you immediately

Did you get the extended firing pin from cgw, by the way? If not, that's your problem
 
Did you get the extended firing pin from cgw, by the way? If not, that's your problem
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Yes it is a CGW part. All parts in the pistol are CGW or stock.

I am going to reach out to Dave too. Like I said above, I have no issues with CGQ quality as I think it's first rate. I post this because I've recommended to people on here going with CGW parts and if on some odd chance they see a similar result I want them to know what the solution might be (I plan to update this as I go).
 
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I would venture to say the disconnector timing is off. We see this often, so much so we have made file pictures we send out frequently to customers.

It can occur in new, stock CZ's as well as modified ones. Good news, is we know what's up and will take whatever time and input needed to get it right. If you call, we can talk you through a timing test so we can be 100% certain we will make recommendations in the proper area.
 
I spoke with David over the phone this morning and he walked me through some checks to perform. It doesn't appear that the disconnector is the problem, at least not from the spot check. What we did find out, however, is that my firing pin plunger seems to be releasing the firing pin just barely before the hammer falls. David's current thought was that the mostly non-existent strikes I saw on those primers were actually hammer falls where the firing pin plunger didn't move out of the way in time. David told me the trick would be to machine a few thousands of an inch off the shelf on the firing pin plunger. I told him my current setup for machine work is pretty abysmal so he was kind enough to offer to do the work for me if I just send it in. In the process he told me to check the shelf on the firing pin for peening or rolling of the edges and if I found any he'd send me a replacement. In the picture below you can see the peening on both parts at the matching points where they interact. David called it without even seeing the pistol, experience is a hell of a thing. My guess is the shelf on the firing pin block was barely holding the firing pin at the end of the trigger travel on some occasions and the force of the hammer falling was forcing the two apart and causing the peening. From what I can tell it seems to be the stock CZ firing pin plunger that was the culprit and not a CGW part.



 
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TunnelRat said:
I spoke with David over the phone this morning and he walked me through some checks to perform. It doesn't appear that the disconnector is the problem, at least not from the spot check. What we did find out, however, is that my firing pin plunger seems to be releasing the firing pin just barely before the hammer falls. David's current thought was that the mostly non-existent strikes I saw on those primers were actually hammer falls where the firing pin plunger didn't move out of the way in time. David told me the trick would be to machine a few thousands of an inch off the shelf on the firing pin plunger. I told him my current setup for machine work is pretty abysmal so he was kind enough to offer to do the work for me if I just send it in. In the process he told me to check the shelf on the firing pin for peening or rolling of the edges and if I found any he'd send me a replacement. In the picture below you can see the peening on both parts at the matching points where they interact. David called it without even seeing the pistol, experience is a hell of a thing. My guess is the shelf on the firing pin block was barely holding the firing pin at the end of the trigger travel on some occasions and the force of the hammer falling was forcing the two apart and causing the peening. From what I can tell it seems to be the stock CZ firing pin plunger that was the culprit and not a CGW part.
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And this is why I want to send my gun in and have the guys at CGW handle my gun instead of a DIY. Other may feel comfortable with it, but I know myself, and for some reason Ol Murphy likes to throw his lawbook at me.
 
And this is why I want to send my gun in and have the guys at CGW handle my gun instead of a DIY. Other may feel comfortable with it, but I know myself, and for some reason Ol Murphy likes to throw his lawbook at me.
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To be fair David said this happens in maybe 2 out of 100 pistols. I don't carry this pistol, it's a project gun. I can understand sending it in as you explained in the other thread, but this is actually fun for me to DIY. My job can be pretty mundane most weeks. I've learned a lot so far about both the function of CZ pistols and DA/SA pistols in general and now I have some more tricks up my sleeve for diagnosing issues down the road.
 
I took it as such. I'm just saying there are good reasons to send it in and good reasons to DIY. Make sure you post when you get yours back. :cool:
 
Just before the weekend I got the parts back from David at CGW. He cut and polished the shelf on the firing pin plunger, sent me a new extended firing pin, a new spring steel firing pin retaining pin, and a new reduced power firing pin spring (almost a new Short Reset System). I was excited and didn't take a picture of the firing pin block/plunger. Upon install the firing pin plunger still blocks the firing pin through almost all of its travel, but releases the firing pin a bit earlier (exactly as it should). At the range I ran 75 more rds of 115 gr Perfect through the pistol without a single issue. All the primer hits looked solid. The P-01 is pretty awesome now. It's measuring 7.5 lb. in DA and 3.0 lb. in SA with noticeably less travel in DA and less overtravel in SA. I can only imagine what could be done to a safety model for competition.
 
^ Good question. I only put probably 150 rds through the pistol stock before I installed the CGW parts. I also installed the parts in three waves. In the first wave I installed the Short Reset System, in the second wave the Race Hammer, and the third wave the Reach Reduction Kit. I didn't really notice the issues until after the RRK when I did more shooting, but I think I also had one or maybe two such issues after the Race Hammer. I don't remember any issues with stock. The Race Hammer essentially eliminates the rearward camming typical on CZs and the RRK has an overtravel screw built into the trigger. Maybe in the process they also cut down on the amount of travel the lifter arm goes through and that combined with a firing pin plunger with slightly too large of a shelf was the issue? I'm just spit balling. I only know it works now with little to no cost or wait on my end.
 
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