CZ Carry question....

U

ut83

New member
I have a cz that I carry. The pistol is designed to be cocked and
locked. The safety is only on in condition 1. I am still leary of
carrying like this...thoughts of bumping the safety off and boom.
There is no grip safety as an added measure like a 1911. I have
no trouble with double action trigger pull. My question is which
is safer...condition 1 or hammer down carry? Thanks for any help.
 
Either method of carry, if you have a CZ-75B or CZ-85B (b = firing pin block) is equally safe, as the gun will not fire unless the trigger is fully to the rear.

Then the question is which mode of carry allows you to the first shot more accurately. While you may NOT have problems with the double-action trigger, I'm willing to bet that with a little practice you can get your first shot off more quickly and substantially more accurately starting from "cocked and locked."

And that is a different "safety" issue.
 
Both carry modes are safe---as long as you stick to one carry mode and don't switch back and forth.
Develope a carry system and stick to it.
The condition one carry mode with a proper holster with a cz is just as safe as a 1911 or a hi-power.
The hammer down carry is safe and viewed as politically correct and by theory more defensable in court---which is why I switched from a hi-power to a cz. The cz has an excellent dbl action pull.
 
That's a good question, and having recently purchased multiple CZ's myself, I've also considered the issue quite a bit. My first question is whether you have a "B" model, which includes a firing pin safety. My understanding is that the safety plunger in the slide is depressed and deactivated only when you pull the trigger. In this case, if you carry cocked-and-locked, and the hammer somehow slips, it shouldn't cause an AD. If you carry in double action mode, with the hammer resting on the firing pin and a round in the chamber, the firing pin block should prevent an AD even with a sharp blow to the hammer, dropping the CZ on it's muzzle, etc.

If you have an 85 Combat or 75 Champion, both of these follow the original CZ design without a firing pin safety. You would theoretically need to be more careful in how you carry these weapons. I would prefer Condition 1 to double action carry with the hammer on a loaded chamber. With this in mind, you can request that your holster maker include a body-side shield with boning that will help prevent the safety from being accidentally clicked off when you carry in Condition 1.

I asked Mike, the head gunsmith at CZ, about this issue. He stated that the 85 Combat kept the old configuration without the firing pin safety because it was easier to strip without tools under combat conditions. The Champion is of course a competition weapon. The Combat and Champion firing pins are retained by a stop plate, similar to the 1911 and Hi-Power. The firing pins in the "B" models are retained by a rollpin, which requires a 1/8" punch to remove. In sum, for obvious reasons, Mike said that the "B" models are safer.

Personally, I've decided to carry my 85 Combat primarily in Condition 1, in a thumbreak holster that puts leather in front of the firing pin, or in a holster that provides extra security for the thumb safety.

I'd like to know your conclusions, too.
 
I have come to a conclusion. It was easier than I expected. I will carry hammer down as my cz does have a block.
I do have a nice IWB holster than has a thumb break I can strap below the open hammer. But what made my final decision is
I also carry a dao 9mm. I am learning that keeping the draw
style/mechanics the same is very important. All of my handguns
can be carried hammer down. Pretty simple.

If I were to carry the cz only..I would carry condition one with
the thumb break....and practice, practice, practice my draw...

Thanks for the help...shoot well
 
Well, since you have the CZ-75B model, you've gained NOTHING by carrrying hammer down.

That's because the same safety feature, the firing pin block, that makes the gun safe hammer down also makes it safe cocked and locked. In either case, the gun will fire only when the trigger is to the rear.

I'd carry cocked and locked. Better first shots. And if first shots aren't a concern, why are you carrying?
 
Ut83 I wondered the same thing when I got my CZ-75 and came to the same conclusion as you. In parts also because I often carry a DAO gun with no safety. Now my first and most critical shots are fired exactly the same way. Second,after testing this over and over again I am no faster or more accurate firing the first shot SA. In fact friends who times me said I was actually a fraction of a second faster DA! This didn`t seem right to me since much of my practice is done with my SA Browning Buckmark so I actually shoot FAR more rounds SA. Lastly I found that when I was disengaging the safety during drill I was contacting only the unserrated outter portion of it which,although I never missed it made it`s positive release under extreme stress less than 100% certain to me. I did find a bit of a compromise though. The decocker versions of the CZ-75 decock to half cock,not full rest (like many other guns) so that`s how I carry my CZ. It shortens the trigger pull some and makes the transition from DA to SA even less noticable. Marcus
 
Walt,
I respect your advise and understand that 1st shot placement
and speed are the most critical of all.
I will expand on my choice a little further. I am a new CCW holder..practicing, reading, looking into defensive/tactical classes..etc. I am by no means good at this sorta thing. In the rare occurance that I do have a shoot out with a BG, I want it as simple as possible. Draw and fire...regardless of the gun I carry. Hammer down carry makes sense to me at this time. I have 2 guns that I can carry in condition one. I may change my carry preference after I get better, quicker, more educated and experienced. But for now.
I choose the simplest and safest way for me and all of my guns.
Draw and fire.

Thanks for the reply, Shoot well.
 
Last edited:
Re: 75B and hammer down

I think you misunderstood my point with regard to hammer down.

You have not gained additional SAFETY by carrying hammer down; the gun is JUST AS SAFE in cocked and locked mode. (That's because the concern is about what happens if the gun is accidentally dropped; its not really an issue otherwise.)

Both cocked and locked and hammer down benefit from the firing pin block -- if dropped. If its not dropped, its not an issue.

I shoot the CZ-85B in IDPA, in both the Stock Service Pistol (hammer down) and Enhanced Service Pistol (cocked and locked) Divisions. (The CZ-85B does NOT have a firing pin block.) I used to shoot a CZ-75B.

In IDPA I may be just a hair slower from cocked and locked -- the difference in speed between C&L and Hammer down is not meaningful for me -- but I am much more accurate with my first shot in C&L mode, and I tend to group the subsequent shots better. In this I'm not unique.

I am generally one of the Safety Officers at our matches. I watch a lot of guys shoot. Its very common to watch the guys who start from hammer down (with CZs, Berettas, and SIGs) pull their first shot. (In the IDPA 8" center, you'll frequently see 3 of 4 shouts grouped together, and the fourth an inch or two away. The wide shot is almost always the first shot.)

The more accurate shooters get around this by taking just a bit longer on the first shot, and then consciously addressing the DA/SA transition. They have to really work at it.

This is why I gave up on SIGS (I've had three). (I've had a nice Glock, too, but just didn't like the way it felt in my hand.)

The only way I could be really accurate with the first shot from hammer down was to slow down, and even then the second shot always seemed to come before I was ready. The DA/SA transition was a problem for me and it is a problem for many, many others. But they don't recognize it for what it is. They think they're just not shooting well...

I've had to get "automatic" in successfully disengaging the safety as part of the presentation.when shooting from C&L.

(You've said that you're more accurate and faster from hammer down. Have you timed this with a shot timer?)
 
Walt,
I may have ended my reply on the wrong foot. I agree with every point you make. I send a flyer quite often with a d/a
first shot and the d/a-s/a transition is getting better. When I
slow down or shoot first shot s/a I shoot better more often than
not.
My concern is I want to carry all of my guns to see what I like, what is comfortable..etc. I want to draw in a consistant manner
that agrees with all of my guns (d/a) . I will get more comfortable/familiar-sooner doing it that way. Being a newbie
to carrying I feel this is in my better interest. As far as a flyer
happening because of a d/a first shot....from what I know of
the "typical" BG situation it is likely to happen at a distance that is close enough to minimize the difference in accuracy. I am not a tack driver shot..but I do alright. Does this make more sense? Or did somebody spike my cigarettes again.

I think marcus was the one who is faster and more accurate with
a d/a first shot.

Thanks for the reply...I would like to shoot with people like you
in person. I could learn alot.
shoot well
 
CZ

Am I missing something or isn't it the case that the CZ75B will not allow you to put the safety on when the hammer is down? Which would mean the firing pin is NOT blocked.
 
VVG, the CZ firing pin block is passive and always "on" when the trigger is not depressed. When you squeeze the trigger, a little doohickey in the frame depresses a plunger in the slide, and the block is disengaged, allowing the firing pin to move forward. The manual thumb safety on the frame doesn't turn the firing pin block on and off. The firing pin block and thumb safety are independent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top