CZ-75B or CZ P-09; Which one for nightstand/range duty?

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BigBL87

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Having a hard time deciding between the two. My first handgun was a B6P, which I subsequently traded in for a PT-92, which I have decided to sell. I want to get back to the CZ type ergo, which has brought me to these two.

I like the capacity of the P-09 and the fact that it has a rail. The ability to switch between a decocker and a safety is a nice plus as well, although I much prefer a safety. Mags are stupid expensive though.

With the CZ-75B, I think I'd like the extra weight for the slightly reduced recoil, and it has a much more extensive aftermarket (grips, springs, sights, etc.). Mags are much more affordable too. Also thinking the 75B would be closer in ergos to the B6P and really like the feel of an all metal gun.

I'll have about $550 to spend, otherwise an SP-01 would be my first choice
 
CZ-75B or CZ P-09; Which one for nightstand/range duty?

Unlike the cz75b, the CZ p09 has a rail for a light, which is an important feature for a HD gun, or at least I think it is.

I use a CZ p01 for HD, with a light attached.
 
A light is essential to a defensive firearm used in the home...

For a pistol, it can be weapon mounted or hand held, either way, get one. If you go with a hand held, you need to practice holding it and the pistol. One of the easiest methods is to hold it in the off hand, the pistol in your strong hand, and rest your strong hand wrist on the weak hand wrist/arm. It's easy and stable, and you can easily transition to how you are holding the light in front of you, so searching is easier, and the need to point the pistol at what you are pointing the light at is eliminated. The claw gripping methods are difficult to learn well and less versatile.

A weapon mounted light is overall easier to use, but if you don't have a light with a wide illuminated area, you need to point the gun directly as you search. Many say that it frees your off hand to open doors and other actions, but I have no issues holding a light and turning a door knob. I can push someone away while holding the light as well. And illumination of a target is less important if you are that close.

But the bunker method is recommended for defense, unless there are other reasons to go looking, like making your way to a child's room to watch over them.


So picking between the two pistols will make you pick which method of light use you prefer.

I personally liked a handheld light for versatility, at only a slight reduction in stability. Currently my defensive arm is an AR with a mounted light.
 
Thanks for the responses. I currently own both a handheld light and a weapon mounted light, so I have both options available. If the handgun I get does not have a rail, the weapon mounted light will go on my shotgun or I'll sell it, haven't decided. I'm a big proponent of the bunker method myself, just like to have my bases covered.
 
I'll have about $550 to spend, otherwise an SP-01 would be my first choice
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I'd say save another $100 and then buy the SP-01. Then you get the best of both worlds - the weight and stability of the metal frame plus a rail for mounting a light or laser.

Waiting a month or two to save up $100 to get a pistol that could be your HD weapon for the rest of your life seems like a no brainer to me.
 
If there's even a remote chance you may carry at some point, get a gun that will do everything...range, competition, nightstand, carry. P07 or P01.

I had a 75bd for years and mostly loved it but it was awfully darn heavy for carry. I sold it and picked up a P01 and discovered it can do everything the longer 75 can do and then some. Just as accurate, but lighter and more versatile.

Just a thought.
 
Of the two optoins---P09 for the rail option. For a polymer gun it does shoot very softly due to the low bore axis but the steel 75 is a touch softer indeed.

The SP-01 is an awesome gun as folks have mentioned but all will get the job done.

Here's my P-09 Review if that helps
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Thanks! I've actually watched your review on the P-09 (as well as the one sootch did) and that's part of the reason I'm considering it. Didn't realize you were here on TFL until now.
 
I had a P-09. It's slide rides no lower than the "SUPER" high axis PPQ. I have literally no idea why people say CZ slides ride low. The tall frames make up for the shorter slide. It's hammer fired. The slide/frame has to be bigger than a striker fired because a hammer has to be physical long.

Good triggers in SA. Horribly hard in DA. Reset is the longest I've felt.
 
One thing to consider: P-09 & P-07 mags are proprietary and pricey. The metal CZ's can all use the same magazines....and those mags are as cheap as dirt and twice as common.
 
One thing to consider: P-09 & P-07 mags are proprietary and pricey. The metal CZ's can all use the same magazines....and those mags are as cheap as dirt and twice as common.
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Ya, that was one thing I mentioned in my OP. Alot of it depends on if/when and how much my PT92 goes for too. If I can get a decent price, I may wait and see if I can get an SP-01.
 
I couldn't be happier with the p09. I have the FDE one and a CZ usa light for when its on the night stand. The gun is much more accurate than I am and has fed everything I've put through it. 115g-147g both ball and hollowpoints. People complain about the triggers (especially in double action) but they tend to not use them as much...they need to break in. My double action was pretty terrible right off the bat but after dry firing with snap caps a lot and using double action at the range its smooth as silk. The night sights on the FDE version aren't meant for range use at all haha but they work. They're perfect for in the house though.
 
Another good thing about the CZp01 (14+1 w/ stock mags, it can use larger cap. mags from other cz75 models) is that it went through an extra development stage to get a NATO inventory acceptance. It's a medium size 9mm that can be concealed carried about as easily as a G19.

I've used a number of handguns in recent years, and the only one that I haven't had a stoppage with was my czp01 - 1092 rds. and -0- problems using a lot of commercial reloads.
 
RAfiringline said:
Another good thing about the CZp01...is that it went through an extra development stage to get a NATO inventory acceptance. It's a medium size 9mm that can be concealed carried about as easily as a G19.
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I don't think anyone knows for sure whether the P-01 really went through any extra development. The P-01 has rails, and the other CZ metal-framed compacts don't. The P-01 also has a forged alloy frame, which many consider a plus --while the others (except for the steel Compact) have cast alloy frames. The cast frames are not known for failures. As far as anyone can tell they did no extra testing, etc. (CZ did extensive testing when preparing the gun for the Czech State Police, but that was years ago.)

The P-01 was supposedly built to meet NATO standards, but I've been unable to find what that really means. SIGs, Berettas, Glocks, H&Ks, licensed versions of Walthers, and even Rugers are or were carried by NATO troops, and none of their manufacturers claim their guns are NATO compliant on their websites or in their advertising.)

There are all sorts of NATO specs and standards available on line, but I've been unable to find anything related to handguns (except handgun ammo). It appears that almost any of the guns used by NATO member guns meet NATO standards, or they just ignore the specs when they send their troops into the field.

CZ no longer claims the P-01 is a NATO Spec gun; this came about after some recent CZ production changes, which were done to allow more -- maybe most --parts to be true drop-ins and fully interchangeable. Most of the newest P-01s no longer carry the NATO marking, and I don't think you'll see it on future guns. Info about production changes and the dropping of the NATO markings is explained on the CZ Website.

None of this, in any way, degrades the gun -- which arguably the best it's ever been. It's a fine gun -- and for many, a better choice than the Glock 19.
 
CZ no longer claims the P-01 is a NATO Spec gun; this came about after some recent CZ production changes, which were done to allow more -- maybe most --parts to be true drop-ins and fully interchangeable. Most of the newest P-01s no longer carry the NATO marking, and I don't think you'll see it on future guns. Info about production changes and the dropping of the NATO markings is explained on the CZ Website.
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To my knowledge the pistol supposedly had drop in parts before any changes to the NATO markings (supposedly it was the first CZ product to do so). As I've mentioned before, my 2015 model has the markings and that blurb about them not carrying the NSN (which has a "may" in it) has been on that website since before my pistol was manufactured. I'm relatively confident that my P-01 actually is newer production and not just stamped as such given the slightly different slide cuts it has compared to previous generations as well as evidence of better machining and finishing of internal parts (subjective assessment to be fair). My 2015 455 Lux is similarly finished very nicely.

I see no evidence that the markings have been dropped completely or that you definitively won't see them in the future. I think CZ is merely covering their bases as there were pistols that I've seen personally that were marked only CZ D Compact, but had an alloy frame with rail and decocker and no NSN markings. My guess is they got calls about P-01s without NSNs and added that blurb. As you mentioned, the trials the pistol went through were for the Czech police, not really NATO, so it's a bit misleading imo to have the markings (nor do I think they're needed).

From CZ's site:
The P-01 9mm (accompanied by the P-06 in .40 S&W) was designed for LE and Military duty, but its compact size and the reduced weight due to its forged alloy frame made it ideal for discrete carry as well. Equipped with a decocker, the P-01 provides convenience for those who prefer hammer-down carry. The P-01 was the first CZ model to benefit from updated manufacturing technology at CZ’s Uhersky Brod factory. The components of the P-01/P-06 are completely interchangable with every other P-01/P-06, with no individual fitting required. This required some very careful re-design so that the reliability and accuracy were not impaired. Since the time of its introduction (designed in 2001, NATO-approved in 2003) the production upgrades have been rolled out to most of the CZ 75 family and several new rifle models as well. The 1913 accessory rail easily accepts any of the industry-standard lights and lasers to assist low-light use. After 3 years of some of the most aggressive small arms testing ever, the CZ P-01 won the honor of replacing the CZ 75s previously used by the Czech National Police. Reliability: The U.S. Army “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF) requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols. During testing of the CZ P-01, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired. This is a .05% failure rate or an MRBF of 2142! For many years, the P-01 carried an NSN engraved on its frame, making it the first NATO-spec pistol ever available to the public. Recently, the factory decided to upgrade the slide stop spring which in turn means the current models may not carry the NSN.
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>Reliability: The U.S. Army “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF) requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols. During testing of the CZ P-01, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired. This is a .05% failure rate or an MRBF of 2142! For many years, the P-01 carried an NSN engraved on its frame, making it the first NATO-spec pistol ever available to the public<

This is what got me interested in the gun, after some aggravating experiences w/ several other pistols.

In a post above, I said they went to extra lengths to design the gun to NATO specs, it was actually Czech Natl Police standards they were fulfilling.

It *has* crossed my mind that all they have to do is step up their production to meet increased demand, cut some corners like a lot of gun manufacturers have, and they'll lose some of that reliability.

I bought mine in Nov., 2014 and it does have that NATO stock number thing.

Below is a description of the test requirements they say the gun went through. Now, this is off a CZ website, so it's not unbiased.

But, I can tell you for certain I've got 1092 rds. through it w/ no stoppages.

I've got a G19g3 that I bought new in Aug., 2015 that has had 8 stoppages in 1100 rds.

http://cz-usa.com/press-release/cz-p-01-gets-nato-approval-the-next-generation-of-perfect-pistols/

CZ P-01 gets NATO approval. The next Generation of perfect pistols

February 2003

The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.

Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Heritage:
The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.
 
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