CZ 52 Question

[frank2]

I just picked up a surplus CZ 52. I noticed it is a lot flatter, a bit lighter, and more streamlined than my .40 Browning Hi Power.
With those things in mind I was thinking maybe it would make a reasonable carry piece. But I don't know anything about the effectiveness of that high velocity 7.62 (.30 cal) bullet that it shoots.With the fact that it was a military cartridge there should be a wealth of information on it, but I don't know where to find it. If anybody knows how well this thing works please let me know. Thanks in advance.

 

[Hard Ball]

If you like the gun but not the cartridge, drop in replacement 9mm Luger barrels are available.
The .30 Mauser is a good cartridge, but you won't find it on the shelf t most gun stores.
J&G Sales has surplus Czech ammunition available at reaonable prices ($5.50 per 40 rounds) but it is corrosive.
Also. don't dry fire your pistol. The CZ 52 firing pin is delicate when dry fired.

A dedicated CZ52 shooter I met recently told me that some lots of foreign 9mm may damage the ro;;er locks in a CZ52 using a drop in 9mm conversion barrel.

[This message has been edited by Hard Ball (edited April 29, 2000).]

 

[Gusgus]

Check out the following link http://www.makarov.com/cz52/index.html You'll find some info, links to other pages, and the CZ52 Owner's Manual in PDF format. One thing I have heard from a number of sources is that the firing pins are brittle, and can break at the worst time. If you use it for carry, get one of the new replacement firing pins. The ammo is hot at 1400 fps plus. I may be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that this round will defeat body armor. You can check out specs on the different types of surplus ammo at http://w3.one.net/~melchar/tokarev/index.html

Good luck,
David

 

[tatters]

You are gonna love this pistol. It is very heavy, in my opinion, and very durable( except the firing pin) and most of the ammo gives a huge fireball! S&B makes ammo, I think, and surplus is available, but if you use the corrosive stuff, make sure you clean after shooting. I really like mine.

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Knock twice. Rap with your cane. Feels nice. You're out of the rain. We got your skinny girls. Here at the Western World
from Steely Dan's "Western World"

[This message has been edited by tatters (edited February 15, 2000).]

 

[saands]

I'll second the tip on S&B ammo for this one. I'd stay away from the .30 mauser ammo, as the CZ-52 was built for much much much more than any of the other .30 mausers. You can also reload the cartridge, but I've been having chambering issues with my reloads and it has never even hiccupped at the hot S&B loads. Like they said ... kind of heavy!
saands

 

[Oleg Volk]

I did see some local place loading 7.62x25 (smallish 50rd plastic boxes, soft points, I think) for reasonable $$. Will inquire with the store as to specifics.

I used a CZ52 and found recoil to be very mild, muzzle flash minimal and acuracy decent if not stellar (better than Makarov, worse than HM USP). Lousy sights, decent trigger.

For carry...big, heavy, only eight rounds, poor sights, single action, drop safe (??) -- but if it works for you, .30 Tokarev is entirely adequate, esp. with soft points. Basically a "30carbine light" 90gr at 1400fps vs. 110gr at 1900fps.


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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA

 

[makarov]

CZ-52's are really interesting guns. I had one for a while. It was fun to shoot but did jam once in a while. It would jam a live round in the chamber and was a pain to eject. Most of the time it worked fine. Accuracy was pretty good. They use a cammed locking mechanism similar to HK rifles. Very beefy construction. I got tired of mail ordering ammo for it. I would consider getting another in 9mm. The 7.62x25 round that the CZ was originally chambered for is *really* hot, I have heard that it will defeat certain types of armor. I shot an old propane cylinder (the kind you see on travel trailers ) it was pretty thick metal and it punctured it with no problem. I know I shouldn't shoot propane tanks. I let it air out for several weeks before I shot it from about 50 yards.

I ended up selling it and getting a Makarov, which has proven to be much more reliable and I think more accurate.

 

[Destructo6]

The CZ-52 is a pretty cool and unique pistol. It has some quirks that I'm not wild about.

First, it has no slide release, but that can be recitfied by a replacement hold-open bar from makarov.com. The replacemnt bar has a bump that can be thumbed to release the slide. Otherwise, you are forced to use, "the sling-shot method" of slide release.

Second, the grip angle is almost nil, resulting in too low groups until you get the hang of it.

Third, the mag release is rather pitiful. I'm working on some sort of replacement in the usual heel configuration or like the Nolan high release for the Makarov.

Fourth, the brittle firing pin. This can be fixed by replacing it with one available at Makarov.com that will also improve the trigger. I think the prices are from $40-$60, depending on grade.

Fifth, my finger gets pinched between the trigger and trigger guard as the trigger resets. Don't know of any solution to this, offhand.

A poster over at the makarov.com discussion board related a story of an impromptu 7.62x25 penetration test done by Russian guards in a gulag. They lined up several prisoners and fired one shot, into the stack, with a Tokarev(7.62x25). It penetrated the first 3 men through and through and lodged in the 4 man. Apparently, this poster was acquainted with the 4th man. Seems to bit a bit much for urban use.

A final point: stay away from the Czech surplus 7.62x25 that comes on 8-rnd stripper clips, 40rnds per box. It has a grey steel case and a bright silver bullet. This stuff is submachinegun ammo, probably made for the PPSH or similar. It's very dirty, corrosive, and the primers are so dang hard, you'll definately get hangfires, misfires, and generally crappy performance.

Stick with S&B ammo or the surplus stuff that has a brass case, 70-rnds per box. Both are fully reliable.



[This message has been edited by Destructo6 (edited February 16, 2000).]

 

[thestallion]

I've had my CZ-52 for about a month now and it has proven to be a very interesting gun. Finding good ammo has proven to be a little trickier than I had planned, but I have had no real problems with the cheap surplus stuff (Russian and Chinese I believe) That Makarov.com link above has some pretty good info after you sort out all the people discussing their Makarovs. The 9mm conversion seems like a great idea, but I've heard of a lot of feeding problems. The 7.62x25 ammo is some neat stuff, obviously hotter than 9mm. Like someone told me in the gun shop the day I bought the CZ-52 "..Telephone pole don't mean nothin' to that gun". It does seem to be very accurate once you get the hang of it, and it is VERY loud compared to many other guns. If you can find a good source of the S&B ammo for a reasonable price, it is definitely the way to go. With the other stuff I've shot, I've had split cases (Russian)and lots of sparks (Chinese). And as long as it's the current production boxer primed stuff, it's non-corrosive with reloadable brass, although if one wants to reload, the shell can be formed from a .223, plus Starline makes new brass for about the same cost as buying loaded ammo, Sierra makes a bullet to fit, and Lee makes dies.
As far as piercing body armour, I haven't heard anything conclusive, although I'm sure it would get the wearer's attention. A while back there was a thread concerning body armour and the only reply somebody gave to the question of 7.62x25 was something like "I don't think we have to worry about many BGs turning up with CZ52s"
The links above are about the best sources of info I've found. Bulkammo.com has about the best deal on the S&B ammo ($240 for 1500 rnds) and I think Claflin cartridge is pretty close. That's just a tad more per box than the surplus stuff. The older Berdan primed S&B stuff can be had for a little less, there's still some running around.
My biggest dissapointment with the gun is those nasty plastic grips that can either be replaced with wood or different plastic which looks nicer but really doesn't do much for the feel. If you're very persistent, a Hogue Handall will fit, but I have yet to be that persistent...

 

[ModIMark0]

In regard to finding a holster for carry (concealed) of the CZ52, RPB Industries sells one (with a thumb break) for about 40 dollars. From time to time you will see it advertised in Shotgun News, but I think they are always stocking it.
For penetration, I recall reading a story of the infamous 'Carlos the Jackel' using a CZ52 to thwart an arrest at his girlfriend's apartment in the 70's in Paris. Carlos killed two policemen, wounded a third, then shot down the collaberator/informant (don't remember his name). As Carlos stood over the man and shot him, the .30 cal. round went through the man's body, the floor, the ceiling of the apartment beneath them, a wooden table in the apartment's kitchen, and ended up lodging in the floorboards where it could not be recovered.
Add to that a personal story of a friend that carried the CZ52 in Florida and had an accidental discharge in his apartment, in which he found that the .30 cal. round, like the Energizer bunny, 'just kept going and going'... The .30 cal. Tokarev is a round that could have serious liability problems.
Oh yeah, the hammer drop feature of the 52 is not too reliable (that's how the AD occured with my friend).

 

[Destructo6]

If you're looking for a shoulder holster, Falco of Slovakia makes a nice verticle setup. They are available from www.makarov.com for $55. I have a Falco Double rig for my Makarov and it is well made.