CZ 457 fail

S

stagpanther

New member
Just when I thought I had Revolver Guy's contest within my grasp--my new CZ rifle had a total fail this afternoon when I went out for another attempt at sweeping the targets. After the first two targets I noticed the bullets were having trouble chambering and were getting nicked on the way in. That when I noticed the magazine had a slight wobble to it--not all that unusual since it takes a bit of maneuvering to get it seated solidly. I decided to check the magwell's screws and they were indeed somewhat loose, so I torqued them down a bit with a hex key--I did not measure the pressure but I'm guessing somewhere around 25 to 30 inch lbs.

When I next tried to chamber a cartridge--the magazine fell out of the rifle--along with the mag well. I remember when I first noticed the one and only plastic fitting when I first examined the rifle I immediately had "warning Will Robinson" butterflies inside--but I figured CZ must know what they are doing.

So now I'm down for count.:mad:

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Oh man sorry to see this I am sure CZ will make it right. I have not seen this from CZ before. This sucks.
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It's a talent I have--if the product is defective or has a part that can fail--it will surely make it's way to me or if I buy it.:rolleyes: Upon closer examination, the design really is pretty poor. Should be an embarrassment for what is otherwise an outstandingly engineered gun. But it seems everyone is jumping on the "modularity easy change adaptability" bandwagon and one of the favored ways to reduce costs and extend a product line is by using something like a plastic mag well to adapt to different cartridges. Mossberg does this too--and I think it equally sucks on their implementation.
 
STAG: Ever hear of the Welsh sin eater ?
Absolutely indispensable to community protection.

Don't even think of changing jobs. :rolleyes: :D
 
:D:D:D Well, someone has to do it. Maybe manufacturers should send their products to me to test, if it can go wrong it probably will in my hands. ;)

I use fails as a way to learn more by analyzing why. I already looked at the trigger, an excellent design for the most part but they really need to tweak it a bit in order to be able to tap the rifle's full potential.

The plastic mag well is attached to the receiver by two screws--one in the front and one in the back. it also serves to retain a piece the bolt rides on called a bolt guide which sits in the floor of the action. It otherwise is free-floated inside the stock inlet--there's nothing else supporting it, especially from the sides. The stock 10 round magazine (which I can't find anywhere other than on a new rifle) is a curved AK-like affair that protrudes out from the bottom of the stock, and I found to be a bit kludgey lining up to engage with the mag-well. What I think probably happened to my rifle is that in my travels to and from home with the magazine inside (there can be only one--so I keep it with the rifle at all times) the magazine probably got side loaded and the mag well along with it, and lacking side support the plastic failed at the two screw holes. I call em as I see em.

Other interesting forensic observations. There were a couple of small chunks of lead stuck into the throat from the difficult cartridge chambering. They came out no problem. I then compared CZ's bore to the one on the Lilja barrel and noticed some interesting differences. I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other--just interesting different approaches. The CZ barrel has what I would call an "aggressive" short freebore with a short lead and rather abrupt transition to the full-depth of the rifling. I've never seen anything like it in the centerfires I've worked with. The barrel is exceptionally accurate though, I'm guessing this machining is done on purpose to optimize stabilizing the projectiles, in most cases I assume to be lead. The Lilja barrel resembles more closely what I typically see in a centerfire chamber and bore; a longer freebore with a gradual lead to the full-depth of the rifling.
 
DIP makes an aluminum replacement and a Wheeler fat wrench would have prevented that from happening.

Bill
 
DIP makes an aluminum replacement and a Wheeler fat wrench would have prevented that from happening.
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Already have the DIP metal magwell ordered. Already have the Wheeler torque screw driver. Accurate presentation of the cartridge to the chamber from the magazine is one of the most important accuracy features.
 
Lord of the Flies

I thought I would try shooting the gun by just hand-feeding, so went out this morning with a handful of targets hoping to get back into the game.

The report was different and the cases were ejecting in a different direction, other than that I don't know if shooting without a magazine would change things (?). For whatever reason, I was shooting like crap and couldn't connect at all with the targets. To top it off it was hot and flies kept distracting me by landing on my targets (perhaps they were attracted to it as an expression of the quality of my shooting), so I abandoned the know your skills contest and took to sniping the flies @ 50 yds. I connected on 5 of 8 shots, including one guy who didn't get the memo when I just missed him the first time but made the mistake of landing on the target again. Eventually the illogic of firing 40 cents a shot caught up with me, but I have to admit it was a lot more fun than shooting at the static dots.:D

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The DIP replacement aluminum mag well came in this morning and fit nicely to the receiver. I'm not sure why the side is cut out on one side, I didn't notice that on their website, but the mag insertion/extraction is pretty stiff so maybe it was to provide some relief, I don't know. The mag well fittings (magazine catch and block) had to be installed from the original plastic mag well--I think they are plastic as well, I was kind hoping the mag well would come with new metal fittings but it was not to be. I'm going to order back-ups for those. On the plus side--the bolt seems to operate much more smoothly now.
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Do you have the same tightness using plastic mags?
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You mean the plastic mag well? Magazines tended to be a bit wobbly until locked into place by the block. The fit is more precise with the metal mag well.
 
No, using a plastic mag in the DIP well?
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I assume you mean the CZ p-mags? I haven't been able to find them anywhere, and from what I've read their performance can be rather sketchy. I try to avoid plastic parts in a rifle's critical components if at all possible.
 
I ordered a magazine direct from CZ--it has sat in Philadelphia for the past 2 weeks and shows no signs of budging. UPS keeps getting worse--they recently lost a package which initially they claimed had been delivered to my address (even sent me a message saying it had been delivered to my address) and then erased the tracking number from their system claiming the order never existed.
 
UPS must have read this--a barrel I've waited on for over 6 months and was scheduled to be delivered tomorrow has been updated--all tracking details other than has been shipped have been deleted and now it says "check tomorrow for changes due to weather." I know from experience the longer they toss packages around in their system--the more damaged they get.
 
UPS has problems. They were the BEST, but no more. I had a rifle shipped 2-day priority, insured, Adult Signature required. It arrived 9 days later. They set it on porch and left.

Had a shotgun shipped last Thursday, regular ground. Picked up by FEDEX, at 4pm.
Received Monday afternoon. From Minnesota to Oklahoma.


UPS is my last choice. Worse than Post Office.

MHO


I went to dollar store and bought one of those cheapy, plastic, children's, play balls. An out the size of a basketball. Took a Sharpie and addressed it to my buddy in Houston. On opposite side, I wrote, " HAVE A BALL ON YOUR BIRTHDAY ".

Took it to Post Office. Took a few minutes, but they finally stamped it and sent it on it's way.

A letter typically takes 4 days. The ball arrived in 18 days. Several smudges from being kicked and bounced, but it arrived.

He laughed and loved his birthday "card". Has it setting on his gun cabinet.

Footnote:

The ball and postage was less than a typical card and postage. Plus, more fun!
 
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Received a message from CZ that the magazine they sent has been stuck at the port of entry for weeks--but they will send another. I have in the last couple of weeks received a message from UPS that a package had been delivered--when it clearly wasn't. The next day all the information on the tracking number was erased from their system and indicated the shipment was never in their system to begin with.
 
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