Cylinder lockup question-single action

HighValleyRanch

New member
I have a sauher and sons vintage single action (hawes firearms co.)
It is .357.
Shot it today with hot mags, and it shoots accurately and doesn't spit lead too much. Jacketed hollowpoints.
Question is, the cylinder has some looseness to it, both unlocked and when locked into place. Is this normal, OK or bad?
Moves left or right about 1/32 of an inch. Just enough to have movement.
I've shot this so much the blueing wore off, but just recently re blued it.
There is no ring on the cylinder from the paw.
 
Do you mean the locking cylinder bolt that locks into the cylinder notches? If it is spitting lead and wobbly at lock up, there is a problem. I would suspect the polishing was overdone before the reblue first. It is easier to fit a new oversized locking bolt than to attempt retiming first. I suggest a trip to a gunsmith. There is a possibility that the revolver only needs new springs and the screws tightened. I lean towards the overpolishing theory. I am not sure but, I believe Arminius and EAA Bounty Hunter cylinders should interchange with Hawes/Sauer single actions. Springs for Colt Model Ps interchange also.
 
same gun

I have the same weapon.. I just checked mine and the cylinder moves a little (hard to tell if it's more or less than 1/32") I did check my S&W model 19 and it feels the same and my colt trooper has more movement.

Were you shooting full load 357 in this? I find it hard to do with mine, kicks like a mother.
 
Here's a link to someone that carries part for the sauer and hawes single actions:
http://www.gun-parts.com/singleactions/
I just ordered a new ejector rod and head from him for the same gun. Nice guy.
I did the polishing, and did not even get into the notches, so that wasn't the problem. I did check about five other revolvers, and they all had movment, but not as much side to side as the hawes. I suspect it needs an bigger "paw?" or tighter spring.
It did not spit lead however.
Yeah, I was shooting full house magnums. They were so loud that the fellow way over down the range came over to see my "canon".
He said they sounded louder than his python .357.
It did shake my noggin each time, but the recoil was manageable, and I was even shooting with pearlite slippery as heck grips!
I was shooting on an old target with other holes, but no shots went out of the six inch group the whole session from 50 feet. I did have to hold centered on 3:00 however. They don't call that kentucky windage for nothin!
 
About the only revolvers that have NO cylinder movement are the older Colt actions like the Python.

All other guns are designed to have some movement.
This is to allow the bullet to align the cylinder with the bore.

Only the Colt's are are tightly locked in perfect alignment at the moment of ignition, and this require a hand-fitted action that has to be in perfect condition.
This hand labor is expensive, which is why only the Python is still made, and why it costs so much.

Other revolvers are allowed to be slightly loose at the moment of ignition to allow the bullet to force the cylinder in to alignment.
This type of system costs much less to build.

So, your revolver should have some looseness in order to work as intended.
 
The cylinder pawl is not involved. It would be the cylinder notches and the locking bolt only involved in sise to side movement at lock-up. I suggest a gunsmith. I feel an oversized locking bolt, fitting and modification of the bolt window will be needed to improve lock-up. If it isn't spitting lead or spinning free, I would be tempted to just leave it alone.
 
No it's' not spitting lead. I shot some jacketed .38 and jacketed .357.
So from DFariswheels post, I would assume:
The looser the cylinder lockup, the less I should be tempted to shoot full wad cutters, semi wadcutters with a shoulder. These would not go into the forcing cone as smoothly.
by the way there is very minimal spacing between the cylinder and frame. The forcing cone on the barrel does not protrude like on my DA smith which has a substantal gap between the cylinder and frame (looking sideways at the gun).
I'm not planning on shooting much .38 out of it. I would assume that .38's would spit more than .357 where the bullet would already be closer to the forcing cone.
And no, it's not spinning free.
And right, I mispoke, it's not the paw, but the lockup bolt.
 
OK. We are on the same page! Try this. Unload and remove the cylinder first. Using a quality set of screwdrivers, remove the gripframe screws and release the pressure on the mainspring and remove the trigger guard and drop the entire gripframe/trigger guard assemblies. You should spot a single larger head screw with a arched flat spring inside the frame. There will be a smaller screw alongside it in the frame. I suggest removing the large screw, this is what holds the pressure on the trigger and the locking bolt. This should come off a single piece. They do break and they can function even when broken in some cases. If it is still together, there is a simple improvement for the piece. You will note sharp edges and corners on the piece. Rounding these will provide longer service. Relieve the crotch between the two legs by using a rattail file to ease the sharp angle and round off the stubs of the legs. Check the bolt and if it isn't broken, reinstall the rounded spring and the bolt. Tighten the screw after dipping it in nail polish. Remove the small screw and allow the screw to fall out. Clean this area with a pipe cleaner and be alert for loose parts. A good cleaning should involve the spring and its tunnel. Apply a little Remoil or Singer sewing machine oil into the tunnel, apply a dab of white grease to the spring/parts and reinstall the screw inside the frame. Check the action without the cylinder for function. You will then move to another improvement. Remove the screw holding the mainspring to the front of the gripframe and remove the mainspring. The improvement involves a simple washer.spacer between the gripframe and the mainspring. I prefer poly plastic. This is basically a 1.8" spacer cut from a Tupperware or other brand heavy duty food container and it can be doubled for a thicker spacer. Drill it and place it between the gripframe and the mainspring and place light tension on it. Check to assure that the roller is functional under the hammer. If it is you are ready to reinstall everything. You will feel like you need three sets of hands. Place the trigger guard assembly into place and push it tight against the frame and install the screws to secure it. Tighten the mainspring against the gripframe and then reinstall the rest of the gripframe. Oil everything as normal and reinstall the grips. You should now reinstall the empty cylinder and check for function. You will notice better function and a smoother and ligher trigger. Dryfire it until you are confident with it. Check the hammer screw/bolt to be sure it is tight. You should have a 3-4 lbs trigger pull, tighter lock-up, smooth as butter function and positive igniting primers when you do fire the revolver. If parts are broken, the Sauer, Arminius, EAA, Colt and generic SAA parts should work fine. I have seen some fastdraw shooters rework their triggers down under a pound intentionally. Go slow and be careful. Old time gunfighters used to perform this modification on their SAAs using leather washers.
 
Thanks Sir William!

Wow,
thanks for the write up. I copied it and will reread it a few times before attempting. I am going out to the range on saturday and might decide to qualify with it for one of my CCW guns, so will not tinker with it until afterwards.
The trigger already is very clean and only two to three pounds.

So you have any info on changing my standard single action grip to a birds head type grips frame. I searched on the internet, but could not finds any modification info. Most of the frames I have seen look to be cast rather than machined steel so I don't think my idea of putting it into fire to soften and bend will work. The grips frame is large but looks interchangeable with my Ubertis and others. it would appear that I would only have to change the backstrap portion of the grip frame.
 
There aren't any birdshead gips for the large frame Sauers, Arminius, EAA or Uberti 44 Magnums. They do make a Qualite brass casting (unmachined) for Rugers. I don't believe they are interchangable at all.
 
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