I'm having a problem getting caps to go off on my ASM Walker. I'm using #11 CCI. The first time I shot it, it worked great. Now, I have to fire on all nipples one round before they will go off. I tried seating them firmly before firing. Can this be related to the cylinder gap? I think it has way too much forward/backward movement - at least compared to my other colts. Does it work to file a small amount off the frame where the pins go in to reduce the gap? I believe I have enough room in the arbor.
Cylinder Gap and Misfires
- Thread starter Osage
- Start date
ribbonstone
New member
Couple of things to check.
How tight is the wedge?
Check the arbor...be SURE it is not bottoming out (and it is supose to just braely bottom out when the barrel is drawn up).
While you have it apart, take a hard look at the arbor/frame joint. May get a beter view from the back (when the hammer slot is).
Filing the frame/barrel joint does a few things...most of them not too good. If you just have to (and the arbor isn't loose or pulled out a bit...the arbor has a bit of room before bottoming out..and the wedge still has a good bit of room to be pushed in) would carfully work on the frame even if I had to pull the two pins and replace them after the work.
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The cheap way, if the cylinder gap is right and the barrel/frame pulls up soild and in line, is to shim the nipples back a bit. In your case, with a lot of barrel/cylinder gap, suspect something else is going on and this fix would be putting a band-aid on a bee sting.
How tight is the wedge?
Check the arbor...be SURE it is not bottoming out (and it is supose to just braely bottom out when the barrel is drawn up).
While you have it apart, take a hard look at the arbor/frame joint. May get a beter view from the back (when the hammer slot is).
Filing the frame/barrel joint does a few things...most of them not too good. If you just have to (and the arbor isn't loose or pulled out a bit...the arbor has a bit of room before bottoming out..and the wedge still has a good bit of room to be pushed in) would carfully work on the frame even if I had to pull the two pins and replace them after the work.
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The cheap way, if the cylinder gap is right and the barrel/frame pulls up soild and in line, is to shim the nipples back a bit. In your case, with a lot of barrel/cylinder gap, suspect something else is going on and this fix would be putting a band-aid on a bee sting.
See my post on a similar problem I had, it may help solve yours...
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206632
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206632
ribbonstone
New member
Guess the easy way to cheack, without real measrueing tools, would be to add small bits of tape to the end of the arbor and see how many it takes to make a noticaible change to the frame/barrel joint.
While you re at it, take the barrel and cylunder off, and take a critical look at that centerpin/arbor's fit to the recoil shield...give here a shake and see if it moves, look for any signes of it being loose.
Have had a couple of guns that were NOT loose, had small barrel/cylinder gaps, and no excessive play but the hammer never really hit the nipples. Now on one that is set up the way i like it, the hammer does miss striking the nipples by a tiny amount....but these guns were WAY far away. Belive the maker has a nipple change, and the new news were a little short.
In that case, found a coil spring in my junk box that was just right to fit over the threaded part of the nipple. Cut the spring into 6 lilte "rings"..anneled them and bent them to flat (being a spring, they were part of a helix rather than a flat "c")...stoned them to an even thickness...slipped them on the threaded part like they wre a washer. A little fiddling and stoning for thickness, and the guns worked fine.
While you re at it, take the barrel and cylunder off, and take a critical look at that centerpin/arbor's fit to the recoil shield...give here a shake and see if it moves, look for any signes of it being loose.
Have had a couple of guns that were NOT loose, had small barrel/cylinder gaps, and no excessive play but the hammer never really hit the nipples. Now on one that is set up the way i like it, the hammer does miss striking the nipples by a tiny amount....but these guns were WAY far away. Belive the maker has a nipple change, and the new news were a little short.
In that case, found a coil spring in my junk box that was just right to fit over the threaded part of the nipple. Cut the spring into 6 lilte "rings"..anneled them and bent them to flat (being a spring, they were part of a helix rather than a flat "c")...stoned them to an even thickness...slipped them on the threaded part like they wre a washer. A little fiddling and stoning for thickness, and the guns worked fine.
Osage,
What is "way more gap" than on your other Colts? How may thou, or how many strips of printer paper?
As to how to check whether you are bottomed out with the arbor, try loosing the barrel assembly from the locating pins and rotate it to clear the mating surfaces. Some are too tight to push the barrel onto the arbor when you twist them. You CAN drift it on with a rubber or rawhide mallet, then, if it is tight and will not turn, just use a straight edge to see if it passes the mating faces. If it will turn, you can juse twist it to see if there is interference of the surfaces.
If you have excessive cylinder gap, I can't tell you what you should do. It is your pistol. If I were to trim my own, I would take the excess from the barrel surface, rather than the frame surface.
Went back to read your OP and it seems to me that you have no problem with the hammer not going forward enough to fire the caps, to overcome any cylinder gap. It seems to me more like the caps are being seated at the first snap of the hammer, then, fully seated, fire on the next snap. Sounds like fat cones, to me.
I hesitate to suggest you try hammer seating of the caps. Hold the pistol downrange and press the hammer firmly. It "should not" fire, but it might.
If you feel any "give" when you do that, I would say the nipples are fat. Like trying to push 10s onto 11 nipples. Very hard to do. That copper cup is tougher than you might think. And, too, if it is too small, and you do force it, it forces open that "pleat"of the cup, widens it, the cap will probably not grip as well as it should, making a chainfire possible, though I think they are far more rare than many here think they are.
Check the gap, check the nipple diameter, use your other Colts for comparison. I am not going to go check my various nipple diameters to see what they are, but I will, later. That should be interesting.
BTW, Osage, are you too busy, or are you still making the loading stands? If you are still making them, let me know, and if so, e-mail me pics to pick the one I want. If you have quit this, never mind.
Cheers,
George
What is "way more gap" than on your other Colts? How may thou, or how many strips of printer paper?
As to how to check whether you are bottomed out with the arbor, try loosing the barrel assembly from the locating pins and rotate it to clear the mating surfaces. Some are too tight to push the barrel onto the arbor when you twist them. You CAN drift it on with a rubber or rawhide mallet, then, if it is tight and will not turn, just use a straight edge to see if it passes the mating faces. If it will turn, you can juse twist it to see if there is interference of the surfaces.
If you have excessive cylinder gap, I can't tell you what you should do. It is your pistol. If I were to trim my own, I would take the excess from the barrel surface, rather than the frame surface.
Went back to read your OP and it seems to me that you have no problem with the hammer not going forward enough to fire the caps, to overcome any cylinder gap. It seems to me more like the caps are being seated at the first snap of the hammer, then, fully seated, fire on the next snap. Sounds like fat cones, to me.
I hesitate to suggest you try hammer seating of the caps. Hold the pistol downrange and press the hammer firmly. It "should not" fire, but it might.
If you feel any "give" when you do that, I would say the nipples are fat. Like trying to push 10s onto 11 nipples. Very hard to do. That copper cup is tougher than you might think. And, too, if it is too small, and you do force it, it forces open that "pleat"of the cup, widens it, the cap will probably not grip as well as it should, making a chainfire possible, though I think they are far more rare than many here think they are.
Check the gap, check the nipple diameter, use your other Colts for comparison. I am not going to go check my various nipple diameters to see what they are, but I will, later. That should be interesting.
BTW, Osage, are you too busy, or are you still making the loading stands? If you are still making them, let me know, and if so, e-mail me pics to pick the one I want. If you have quit this, never mind.
Cheers,
George
more info
More information is always better.
I can fit three pieces of copy paper easily, four fit very tight in the gap.
The tiny pin in the recoil shield came loose the first time I cleaned the gun. I tapped it back in. The cylinder pin was a little loose.
The aligning pins go together very difficult. I have to tap the barrel down on them to get it together. One pin stays in the barrel frame, the other in the cylinder frame.
I don't have a calipers so I'll compare the walker nipple to my army nipple using the ole finger-tip-rubbing-over-the-nipple method.
More information is always better.
I can fit three pieces of copy paper easily, four fit very tight in the gap.
The tiny pin in the recoil shield came loose the first time I cleaned the gun. I tapped it back in. The cylinder pin was a little loose.
The aligning pins go together very difficult. I have to tap the barrel down on them to get it together. One pin stays in the barrel frame, the other in the cylinder frame.
I don't have a calipers so I'll compare the walker nipple to my army nipple using the ole finger-tip-rubbing-over-the-nipple method.
Osage,
It doesn't matter where the pins are, they are just for alignment, will work either way.
3 pieces of paper is at most 6 thou or so, NOT excessive clearance. You do not have too much "endshake".
I guess you mean the "tiny pin in the recoil shield" is the pin that locks the arbor after it is set. As long as the arbor itself is tight, at the plane it is, you have no problem there.
I still think you have fat nipples. Number 11 Rems are about the biggest I know of. If they don't fit, you might have to turn them down, which can be done in a hand drill, with a piece of sandpaper.
Would be nice to have nipples that all of them fit nice and snug on with no real effort, no?
Cheers,
George
It doesn't matter where the pins are, they are just for alignment, will work either way.
3 pieces of paper is at most 6 thou or so, NOT excessive clearance. You do not have too much "endshake".
I guess you mean the "tiny pin in the recoil shield" is the pin that locks the arbor after it is set. As long as the arbor itself is tight, at the plane it is, you have no problem there.
I still think you have fat nipples. Number 11 Rems are about the biggest I know of. If they don't fit, you might have to turn them down, which can be done in a hand drill, with a piece of sandpaper.
Would be nice to have nipples that all of them fit nice and snug on with no real effort, no?
Cheers,
George
Smokin_Gun
New member
Osage then it ain't too much gap if 3 sheets of paper make it a thight fit. i got a 45 yr old Belgium 1860 that shoots with a .040" gap.
Try the REM#10 Caps, like i did on my Uberti 1851 that I was having the same trouble with. The CCI#11 that I still swear by with every other Rev I have was too tight. Even after hammer seat ing the still took 2 shots to go off. The REM#10 are a hair bigger in diameter I guess. I'd measure the cones like I did and compare diameters to some of yours that take CCI#11's...bet they are close to .020" bigger on that ASM... good luck.
Try the REM#10 Caps, like i did on my Uberti 1851 that I was having the same trouble with. The CCI#11 that I still swear by with every other Rev I have was too tight. Even after hammer seat ing the still took 2 shots to go off. The REM#10 are a hair bigger in diameter I guess. I'd measure the cones like I did and compare diameters to some of yours that take CCI#11's...bet they are close to .020" bigger on that ASM... good luck.
Smokin_Gun
New member
LoL Osage!...I remember you mentioning that before...I caught a towel on fire with my Dragoon...Pretty funny sight, seein's I as at the Range all alone.
armedandsafe
New member
If you think setting a towell on fire is funny, it's a good thing you weren't around the day I set my off-hand shirtsleeve on fire. I didn't laugh, but my sons were rolling around on the ground, for some reason or other. 
Pops
Pops
Osage,
All revolvers lose a little gas at the gap. Elmer Kieth tells of setting his pants on fire with Smiths and Colts with mebbe 2 thou gap. He took a lay on your back and hold between your knees hold.
No worry there. Not popping the primers, yeah, you gotta figure that problem. Wrong caps, basically. Or wrong nipples, if the rest of your pistols use that size cap. Cheaper, easier, to get the nipples all to use the same cap.
Cheers,
George
All revolvers lose a little gas at the gap. Elmer Kieth tells of setting his pants on fire with Smiths and Colts with mebbe 2 thou gap. He took a lay on your back and hold between your knees hold.
No worry there. Not popping the primers, yeah, you gotta figure that problem. Wrong caps, basically. Or wrong nipples, if the rest of your pistols use that size cap. Cheaper, easier, to get the nipples all to use the same cap.
Cheers,
George
Smokin_Gun
New member
Easy fix Osage
Don't know if you saw my posting in the home forum, but I took about .003-.004" off those Uberti 1851 cones. Check fit as I was spinnin' them. Used a polishing stone, emery cloth, and a drill motor. I got the best fit I ever had for CCI#11 caps now. Worked for me.
Don't know if you saw my posting in the home forum, but I took about .003-.004" off those Uberti 1851 cones. Check fit as I was spinnin' them. Used a polishing stone, emery cloth, and a drill motor. I got the best fit I ever had for CCI#11 caps now. Worked for me.
Smokin_Gun
New member
Emphesis on a little...LoL! Emery cloth'll probly work just fine.
Good deal it's a gittin' thar....
Good deal it's a gittin' thar....