Cylinder Bore Pattern

KYGlock

New member
I'm relatively new to shotguns but have shot modified choke guns a bit. I worried about purchasing a new HD shotgun due to an experience with a friend's 870 a few years back. Basically with bead sights on a 18.5" marinier plus 3" magnum buckshot, we couldn't hit the side of a barn at 25 feet. Yeah, skill probably was the culprit, but I've had no such difficulty with a 500 / modified choke.

I was wondering if some of you 870/590/HD shotgun folks could comment on the spread of a cylinder bore shot pattern at 10 to 25 yards. How large is your pattern? Is the overall pattern size ammo dependent?

I found some info on reduced recoil loads on the theboxotruth.com, but am interested in more opinions / loads.
 
Each and every gun is different, and will shoot different loads differently.
The pattern size is VERY much dependent on the ammo, but also on the individual gun and on the individual choke used.

For this reason, most serious shotgunners will buy a wide variety of brands of the size shot they want to shoot, and will then shoot patterns to find the brand their gun "likes" the best.
Some will also experiment with different chokes, since that too plays a major part.

A good "rule of thumb" for Cylinder bore guns is: The shot will spread at an average of one inch per yard.
In other words, at 5 yards the pattern will be an average of about 5 to 6 inches in diameter.

If you "couldn't hit the side of a barn at 25 FEET with a Remington 870, there was something drastically WRONG with either the gun or the ammo.

What I suggest is, buying a variety of ammo and shooting it. If your gun is a Cylinder Bore, this will simplify the experiments, since you won't have to try different chokes.

Keep in mind that the tightest patterning buckshot ammo is "usually" the more expensive ammo with buffered and plated shot.
The buffering material is granular plastic that "pads" the shot and prevents deformation.
Plated shot is harder and also helps reduce deformation of the shot, and produces tighter patterns.

The new reduced recoil ammo typically shoots tighter patterns in order to "make up" for the fewer pellets.
 
Thanks for the quick reply Dfariswheel. I'm trying to decide if I want to buy a new 20" barrel which includes the accuset chokes for my existing mossberg 500 or "break down" and buy the 590A1.
 
Every shotgun barrel is indeed a law unto itself as far as patterning is concerned, and the only way to know what a given barrel and load will do is pattern it. Any number of things can influence the size and shape of shotgun patterns for better or worse, and two consecutive apparently identical barrels made from the same materials on the same machinery can pattern much differently.

Failing to hit the 'broad side of a barn' at 25 feet is a function of something besides choke, more than likely. Maybe the recoil of 3" maggie numb loads of buckshot had something to do with it perhaps? 8^) Shotguns often demonstrate a marked preference for a given shot size or brand or load, but at 25' you should be seeing some sort of defineable pattern out of almost anything, even if the patterns were wide open.

My usual range for patterning buckshot is 25 yards (75 feet). No real reason, it's arbitrary, but generally if you have good patterns at 25 yards you will have good patterns at shorter ranges also. No need in blowing great gaping holes in pattern paper at 5 yards or closer, no need to work the intervals with the pattern paper until you know what the load will do at the longest range at which I personally am apt to use buckshot. It saves ammo, noise and wear and tear on the shooter to start at long range, and then if the load looks promising to try it at 1,3,5,10, 15 and 20 yards to confirm the 25 yard pattern and get an idea of the size and shape of patterns at those ranges.

Remington is putting Improved Cylinder fixed chokes in most of its short smoothbore barrels these days. That little bit of choke (about .010" tighter than the nominal bore diameter of .729" in a 12 ga.) helps to make patterns more even and somewhat smaller, and I decided a good while ago to be happy with a fixed ImpCyl choke in a defensive shotgun. It saves money over going to the expense of having choke tubes installed or having Hans Vang do his thing. I do like to have forcing cones relieved a bit, that more than anything else I have experimented with seems to consistently improve buckshot patterns.

I am happy with a defensive shotgun barrel that will keep its pattern on a piece of notebook paper (8 1/2 X 11) at 25 yards, I will settle for 12- 14" patterns at that range. It happens I like tight buckshot patterns in defensive shotguns, some folks like 'em to be real scatterguns. It isn't for me to tell you what you should be looking for in your shotgun patterns. If you want wide open patterns, that's easy- just shoot S&B buckshot loads.

Right now several of the buckshot loads on the market (Hornady TAP FPD, Federal law enforcement loads and Premium sporting loads) are using a type of wad that helps control pattern size, and will offer good performance even out of a cylinder bore. I use Hornady TAP (red hull, 8 00 buck pellets at full velocity), there is a blue hull low recoil version and Federal offers low recoil law enforcement loads with the same wad if you'd rather use that.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc
 
Dfasafari is the man, es el hombre etc. I hate to disagree with such a learned man, but my experience with Buckshot is generally speaking it will shoot a very tight pattern- less than, say 4 inches until some where between 15-20 yards. At that point the pattern "lets go" and opens up rather dramatically.

As has been said by Lee, guns and shot are laws unto themselves. My 870 wont shoot horrible patterns with the Winchester lead stuff- yellow box, do you get that in the states? - but is awesome with the el cheapo S & B stuff, with about 2-3 inch groups up to 18 odd yards. Then, magically, the pattern "gives" and opens right out. Its pretty weird. Once more, the importance of patterning your gun.

I would consider that 25 feet- 7 odd yards with just about all guns and all loads will shoot tight patterns. Its just possible, but there may be user error, or perhaps the way you are using the bead sight. The recoil of 3 inch buck loads will not help your shooting either. If you think you will be only using the gun at that range to fight zombie hordes, then you could try #4 buck, but stick to the 2 and 3/4 rds!
 
"I am happy with a defensive shotgun barrel that will keep its pattern on a piece of notebook paper (8 1/2 X 11) at 25 yards, I will settle for 12- 14" patterns at that range."

Lee and Death from Afar,
Thanks for even more great info. So what I'm hearing is that a mossberg 590 should be very different than what I exeperienced years back with my friend's 870, and that even virtual twins off the manufacturing line can and will be different in terms of pattern. Good info! You guys are unknowingly selling me hard on a 590A1.

Is Lee's above mentioned pattern pretty representative of what everyone else has experienced with a cyl bore choke?

Thanks!
 
KYG,

Those patterns at 25 yards are with fixed ImpCyl chokes or MOD choke tubes, not CYL bore barrels- sorry not to be clear about that. However, I would not be at all surprised to see any of the loads I mentioned which use FliteControl wads (Hornady or Federal) pattern acceptably at 25 yards out of a cylinder bore. With anything else, you're taking your chances and may well not see that kind of pattern.

hth,

lpl/nc
 
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