Cylinder binding 625 .45 ACP?!?

Alleycat

New member
OK, gang, here's the deal. I shoot a SW 625 in .45 ACP in competition--mostly USPSA and ourlocal unaffiliated stuff, but ICORE as well. I've gotten the trigger just about right, but it's been inconsistent, sometimes seeming heavier than others.

Got my hands on another 625 last week, and the problem was obvious. On my gun, the cylinder binds during one phase of rotation, his spins freely. Having messed with his, it's now obvious that mine's never been right. how did I misss this? Beats me, but I've never been one to spin the cylinder with the gun closed.

It only binds with the cylinder closed, never open, regardless of side forces appied to the cylinder--it it's open, it'll spin forever.

the gun is coming up on 8500 rounds through it, most heavy USPSA (old) major loads, about PF 185-90.

OK, so why? Being a competition gun, which gets slammed around pretty good (my reload, when I'm working at it and tuned up, runs right at 1.5 seconds, shot to shot--and happens a LOT at USPSA matches...), the obvious conclusion is that something's bent. So..

I should interject here that we first checked all of the obvious stuff. Headspace is perfect. B/C gap is perfect and consistent chamber to chamber. The bolt is timed right. The sight screw isn't contacting the cylinder.

Wee look at ejector rod runout first, 'cause it's easy. yep, it's out, but not a lot--but maybe that bend is enough to be binding on the ejector rod catch and tieing things up.

So, we change out the part. Now it's REALLY tight. I don't want to tell how many times this came apart and went back together before we discovered that the NEW ejector rod was out of spec by .002 (too large). Put old parts in, we're at least back where we began.

Now, the IRC's coming up in three weeks, so we're really kinda reluctant to make anything worse. After much thought, we decide that it can't be the crane (which certanly is at risk in this use) being sprung, becuase then it'd be out one direction, consistently, and would either bind during the entire rotation or not, and this is not the case.

So we swap cylinders between guns. Now, his cylinder spins freely in my gun, and my cylinder is lightly binding, again during only one aprt of the rotation, in his. It's not as bad in his as in mine, however. Hmmm.

At this point I invariably end up with the conclusion that I'm on the wrong end of a bunch of in-spec tolerances, adding up. if it's somethign in my cylinder assembly, why is it not just as bad in his gun, and if it's someghint in my crane or gun, why does his cylinder work just fine there?

More hair pulling.

having slept (poorly) on the issue, we decide to do some judicious polishing. A light polish in the crane tunnel, which on inspection looks like cast dog crap inside, a very light polish inside the cylinder (not the keyway), and we put it back together. Ona whim, we pull the ejector catch and stone a big burr off the back side of that bearing surface--this, too, looks like total crap, and is completely unfinished.

Reassemble, and things are MUCH better. it still binds on one chamber's worth of rotation, and we rechecked and rechecked that it's not external to that chamber, and it's not.

So, do we polish some more? I'm really inclined to go back and put a high polish on the extractor rod where it spins in the crane, but don't want to go too far.

Looking for suggestions, here.

Steve
 
Being that the gun gets beat around in competition, it could be a host of thing that maybe wrong. From a misaligned cylinder, bent yoke, damaged hand or firing pin bushing. And the list goes on and on. Could be something very simple too. Ratchet may need to be sanded, same for the recoil shield. You seem very knowledgeable, but it is time for a qualified Smith & Wesson gun smith (Or, one with a bit more knowledge about these kinds of problems) and that is what I would recommend that you do. Take it to him. Sometimes it is the best thing to do. We sometimes get too wrapped up that we miss the obvious and it happens to all of us. A fresh look is all I'm saying. Good luck.

Robert
 
yeah, you're right. My guy is a very good SW smith, but he's stumped and recommends the same--unfortunately, we've got nobody close, and I HATE sending things out of my hands--I've had to many BAD experiences with 'smiths I don't know--especially with revolvers.

I figured I'd pick a few brains at the IRC.

It's not the firing pin bushing. I don't belive it's the yoke, since it only binds during one part of the rotation. Same for the hand--why would it be only on one part of the rotation, and why would the other cylinder be fine? Same for the yoke--why would the other cylinder work fine, all else staying the same.

i agree that there's a high probability of something being bent--that's kinda an inherent conclusion with the use this guns gets, like bodywork on a racecar.


Steve
 
Check to see if there is a burr on the ratchet and make sure that it is seated flat to the recoil shield. If I'm not mistaken, there is also suppose to be a gap between those two parts (don't know what that number is). Both parts may need cleaning (fine sanding and removal of any imperfections like burr, scratches and flat spots).

Robert
 
Alleycat,

To be safe, load up some dummy rounds to use while determining what might be out of spec.

When the cylinder starts to bind, stop and take some measurements to determine where it is dragging. Use a .006 feeler gauge. It should not only slip beteen the barrel and cylinder, but also between the recoil shield and the case head. Remember, it's important to take the measurements while the gun is loaded with your dummy rounds.

It could be any number of things out of spec, but the two that I've seen most often are high primmers and too much cylinder endshake.

I cut my primmer pockets to rifle depth to insure the primmers always seat just below the case head surface. No problem with misfires yet.

Ron Power makes some cylinder and yoke bushings that have worked well for me in correcting endshake.

Good Luck...

Joe
 
I've had this problem twice.
First time, the ejector rod had a 'zee' bend in it. The front was close to 0 runout, but the section under the crane was dragging.

Second case was a out of true ratchet/ejector rod joint. The area where the ratchet and rod screw together wasn't true, and it put a 'bow' into the asassembly. At the rear, the ratchet was 'tilting' when the cylinder was closed, and the ejector rod was rubbing up front. This felt like a 'hard spot' during trigger pull, on one side of the cylinder. Finally wound up replacing both parts, and the bushing.

I suggest sending it in to S&W, their the pros, and you'll get a fix.
 
Good suggestions. We;ve done all the measuring, and ther's no headshake; headespace is good, nothing is dragging externally on the cylinder.

The last gun I sent back to SW for a "fix" got the problem fixed; it also got a new trigger group making me start over on the trigger job, etc--sw said it was too light for reliable ignition and replaced everything wihtout permission. DUH! It was a competition gun, and it WAS to light for anything else--but that's waht it was FOR. Dopn't want to do THAT again. Worked fine with federal primers--never had a misfire--but truly demoralizing to have to start over again.

It sounds an awful lot like we've got a mystery bend in the ejector assembly.

Thanks!

Steve
 
I've had a similar problem once or twice...in the case of MY gun(s), it was an out-of-spec RATCHET TOOTH...too THICK...stuck up too high...got worse as the gun got dirtier, but never went away completely no matter how CLEAN the piece was...a few minutes w/a stone fixed it, but DON'T CUT until you're SURE...good luck!!!....mikey357
 
Mikey357 wins the prize!!

Well, it's been apart probably thirty times now--we got fooled by the fact that taking the ejector rod catch out solved the problem and dedicated way too much effort to checking runout, polishing, adjusting spring tension, etc--when what was really happening was that the ratchet teeth were not square to the cylinder face, and the catch tensioned it enough to cause a drag. Trued it up and viola! All better.

Thanks, all, for your help.

Steve
 
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