Cyl - v- Imp Cyl

S

saands

New member
I have finally realized that I really should have a shotgun set up for HD. I'm looking at getting an 870 which seems like a hard platform to argue against in this role. As it will be shared by two people with very different arm lengths, the Knoxx SpecOps stock with the adjustable LOP looks like a winner as well. I am trying to decide if the improved patterns from an ImpCyl choke justify the extra cost of getting a barrel with it, though. It looks like the 870-HD (only available with the Cyl choke) costs about $40 more than a standard Express, but is about $100 less than getting a standard 870 Express and then getting an 18" ImpCyl barrel (there aren't many of those out there, but Brownells does sell them). I already have a BPS for the bird hunting trips, so ending up with 2 bbls on an 870 (18" and 28") won't really add much value to me.

So ... are the patterns from the IC choked barrels out there clearly better than the Cyl barrels out there? I'm specifically interested in the larger end of the pellet spectrum #4 Buck and larger.

Thanks,

Saands
 
My take:

With "standard" (i.e. not the new-fangled "low recoil" stuff with the pattern control types of wads) loads (both buck and bird) all that IC does over CYL is to even out the pattern a bit at any given range. It doesn't seem to actually tighten the pattern at all.

With the new low recoil loads (Fed Tactical, Hornaday TAP, etc) the choke doesn't seem to make much difference at all, at least at ranges less than 15-20 yards. I've shot Fed LE132-00, Speer Lawman and Hornaday TAP out of CYL, IC, MOD and FULL choked guns and the pattern size and dispersion is virtually identical at any given range.
 
The only time you'd really notice a difference between Open Cylinder and Improved Cylinder is when shooting slugs and buckshot at longer ranges.

At the typical home defense ranges you won't notice a tremendous difference in pattern size simply due to the short distance available in most homes.

A good rule of thumb is, "most" guns patterns will open at "about" one inch per yard distance from the muzzle.
So at a distance of 30 feet the pattern would be "around" 10 inches.
With an Improved Cylinder, the pattern might be 9 inches.

So, if you're talking about a true home defense gun, the difference between Cylinder and Improved Cylinder isn't worth the extra cost and trouble.
 
Thanks for the input ... so if I wanted to see something more like 5" patterns in that 10-15 yds range, they are pretty much only available with more drastic mods like the Vang Comp treatment?

Saands
 
Thanks for the input ... so if I wanted to see something more like 5" patterns in that 10-15 yds range, they are pretty much only available with more drastic mods like the Vang Comp treatment?

Saands
Click to expand...

Nope, they're also easily available with inexpensive mods like a $4 box of Fed LE132-00. With that ammo it'll do 2-3" at 10 yards and 5-6" at 15 yds out of a CYL bbl all day long.
 
Nope, they're also easily available with inexpensive mods like a $4 box of Fed LE132-00. With that ammo it'll do 2-3" at 10 yards and 5-6" at 15 yds out of a CYL bbl all day long.
Click to expand...

Great news ... thanks. Does the Hornady TAP typically fit into that category as well? I know each platform is its own beast, so I'll buy a sampler to see what it likes, but it would be good to have the general idea.

Thanks,
Saands
 
Does the Hornady TAP typically fit into that category as well? I know each platform is its own beast, so I'll buy a sampler to see what it likes, but it would be good to have the general idea.
Click to expand...

Yes, definitely.
 
My advice- set the gun up to fit the shorter of the two shooters who will use it. The taller person can adapt to the gun. That seems a better idea to me than mucking around trying to set the LOP of an adjustable stock to fit when a window breaks at oh dark hundred and your adrenalin kicks your heart rate up to about 200 beats per minute, your fine motor skills go to pot and you have to remember to breathe. If you're really worried about money, spend $30 on a premium recoil pad and have the stock fitted to the shortest shooter who will be using the gun.

I'm 6'3", my wife is 5'4". Our house guns are set up to fit her- 12 ga. 870 Expresses 12.5" length of pull, with KickEez recoil pads and full field length fore-ends. Overall length of the 18" barreled guns is right at 37". They have as little weight in front of the support hand as possible (18" or 20" barrels, no magazine extensions, just a bracket and the attached M3 light). It's a lot easier to use a gun that's a bit too short than one that's even a little too long.

I also suggest using one basic platform for everything- either set up another BPS specifically for HD, or switch to the 870 for everything. That way you only have to groove one set of locations for controls and one routine for using the gun. You won't find yourself reaching for a top tang safety or fumbling for a slide release on your HD gun if you hunt with an 870 too, as well as shooting skeet/trap/sporting clays or whatever else you do with a shotgun. I think it's one of the larger mistakes a lot of people make and is a needless complication that could contribute to getting you hurt or killed if you really need that HD gun.

Shuck fast and shoot straight,

lpl/nc
 
choke\?

The 870 is great, and not to expensive, but if it were me, and only $100 dollars more, I would get the express. I love my BPS for birds, but having a back up gun could save a trip. An extra barrel is just nice to have anyway.

That aside. again if it were me... I would scratch the idea altogether, I would get a Benelli M2 tactical w/ ghost ring sites. Fill it w/ 3" #4 buck load. and feel very secure at home. I feel (just my opinion here ) #4 gives the perfect balance of number of pellets. pellet size, and stopping power. I for one would now want to be on the wrong end of that combo.
 
Fate has intervened ... This weekend the Express was on sale ($30 off) plus it had a $30 rebate from Remington, so at $209, it was too hard to pass up ... looks like the 18" IC barrel plus the 28" Rem-Choke combo was just plain in the cards :D

Thanks for the input.

Saands
 
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