Cutting BOSS off Model 70?

G

grizzly_

Inactive
My dad gave me a rifle when I was younger (mid-1990s?) It is a Model 70 Classic Stainless w/ BOSS in 7mm.

It is an absolute tack-driver (3-shot group under a dime at 100 yards). I want to lighten it up a bit and make it a little shorter as right now it is so long and heavy that I hardly ever hunt with it. I am considering cutting off the BOSS and having it re-crowned or just removing the BOSS and putting on a thread protector.

Do you see any problems/benefits with either of those options? (I already have the CR, but I don't like the weight and length of that either.)

One more question, the Serial Number is G7xxxx. Why would a modern rifle have a SN with 5 digits?

It looks like that number should come from the 60's when I look at the Winchester website. Is the SN a misprint? Also the box, which has the same SN on it, has a misprint (it says "pre-64 acyion)... the whole rifle just doesn't seem to add up.

Thanks for your help... Grizzly
 
The pre-64 started being produced in 1992.
Taking the boss off may or may not hurt accuracy. It is somewhat effective in tuning harmonics to match loads. The rifle will definitely kick a lot harder with it off.
 
Not sure I'm understanding the serial number.

Winchester started using the G prefex in 1969. But those rifles had at least 6 digits after the "G).

Based on your post, the rifle shoots quite well with the boss, removing the boss is going to change that.
 
I consider my opinion on subjects like this to be in the minority but I would not change a thing on that rifle for a couple of reasons. First is that you have a rifle that'll shoot dime sized groups, making changes to the barrel risks loosing that. I've owned exactly one factory rifle that shot that good, they are rare in my opinion. Second is that I like long rifles, they feel more balanced to me and the weight you hate to carry around during the hunt really helps reduce felt recoil when it comes time to shoot. Being a 7mm Remington Mag (a little assumption there, please correct me if I'm wrong) you'll appreciate that weight if you shoot the rifle regularly. If it were me rather than make the changes you want I would keep the M70 as is and get a light weight Tikka in a more suitable caliber (243, 7mm-08 come to mind).
 
Just my 2 cents, and worth every penny you paid for it:

I want to lighten it up a bit and make it a little shorter as right now it is so long and heavy that I hardly ever hunt with it.
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A sustained regimen of physical training would make the the rifle more managable, feel lighter and shorter, be much cheaper, and far more rewarding.

Spending a bunch of money at a gunsmith to have the barrel shortened and recrowned, while possibly ruining it's very good accuracy? Bad plan.

If you must have a shorter, handier rifle, buy one.
 
I consider my opinion on subjects like this to be in the minority but I would not change a thing on that rifle for a couple of reasons. First is that you have a rifle that'll shoot dime sized groups, making changes to the barrel risks loosing that. I've owned exactly one factory rifle that shot that good, they are rare in my opinion
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I agree with that. You think it will keep its accuracy after the changes, but will you like the rifle if instead, it becomes a 2 MOA thing after you remove the BOSS?
 
Ditto on previous comments. I would not do anything to the rifle - unless - you are willing to accept a potential loss of accurracy.

If you are OK with the gun shooting 1-2" groups then have the barrel shortened.

Regards,

Rob
 
That's a fairly heavy gun, coming in around 9lb 9ounces without a scope, according to references I can find.

The trouble is, a gun that's too heavy is probably still going to be too heavy if you remove the BOSS and shorten the barrel. It might balance better, since the BOSS probably makes it a bit front heavy but I don't know for sure. If the gun is balanced with the BOSS, it might balance worse without it.

In any case, you'll be taking a nearly 10 pound gun and removing, for instance, 4" of barrel and the BOSS. You'll probably lose a total of 12ounces, maybe a bit more.

The gun will still be near on 9 pounds without a scope.

I personally don't mind a 9 pound gun for my hunting (happens to be almost exactly what mine weighs) but you'd have to decide for yourself if it's worth all the trouble and expense.

By the time you paid the cash, you could probably buy a 7 pound gun.
 
Leave the rifle alone and start lifting weights and get in better shape. Weight of rifle is subjective. I would rather carry a slightly heavy accurate rifle than a light weight inaccurate rifle. In the grand scheme, that isnt a heavy rifle.
 
It's funny, because someone posts about a rifle that they like that weighs 10 pounds and there's always someone saying that it's too heavy, they'd never carry such a thing, a rifle shouldn't be over X weight for hunting or it's too heavy, they'd never put that scope on it because it's too heavy... and then someone posts about maybe making a rifle lighter because it's too heavy and the answers are "Man up! That's not heavy!"

In other words, answer the question as posed with reasonable advice and lay off the "Suck it up and lift some weights" nonsense.
 
Thanks for the advice, guys. You are probably right, a gun that shoots that well probably should be left alone.

I think I will try the thread protector to take a little weight off the muzzle, but mainly to shorten it a few inches. While backcountry hunting, I hate how tall it sits above my head while strapped to my pack. It snags on trees and branches and drives me insane.

What about fluting the bolt? I know it won't save any mentionable weight, but I really like the look. Any ill-effects of doing that?
 
Fluting the bolt might make the action a touch smoother, but for all practical purposes only reduces weight. Its probably been done, but I have never seen a fluted Mauser type bolt.
 
When Winchester came out with the "Classics" in 1992 they started a new series of serial numbers. Your's with 5 digits makes it an early model of Classics, probably made the 1st year or 2. Those are the most desireable of the Classics as some of the rifles made after 2000 or so were hit or miss as to quality.

The BOSS system is a love it or hate it system. Lots of guys have happily cut them off, as would I. In a heartbeat. But there are a handful of guys out there who would pay a small premium for one, so it is a fairly close call.

Leave the rifle alone and start lifting weights and get in better shape. Weight of rifle is subjective. I would rather carry a slightly heavy accurate rifle than a light weight inaccurate rifle. In the grand scheme, that isnt a heavy rifle.
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This is really, really, bad advice. I've carried 10+ lb rifles into some pretty steep mountains. And I can do it again if I were to choose to do so. I simply cannot think of a single good reason why I'd want to. I make my rifles as light as possible. Under 6 lbs ready to hunt is my goal. If you can shoot, you can shoot a lightweight just as well as a 10 lb rifle. A couple of photos to illustrate the point. Using 10 lb rifle makes as much sense as taping a brick to your barrel.





You won't lose much weight by cutting it off. I "think" those are 26" barrels, as long as you can keep at least 24" of barrel I would do it if it were my rifle.

To lose weight you reall need to replace the stock. That is where you can lose as much as a full pound, with no loss of performance.

Here is the same rifle in 30-06 in a McMillan Edge stock. Weight even with the heavy scope is 7 3/4 lbs as it sets. I could easlily get it under 7.5 with a lighter scope. A 7 mag with a 2" longer barrel would be within ounces of the same.

 
jmr40 said:
This is really, really, bad advice.
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It's not bad advice at all, it just happens to not fit your hunting conditions, styles or opinions. It's no more bad advice than is yours, in comparison, because it doesn't fit my hunting conditions, style or opinions.

Considering that we're talking about a 7mm Mag, I'd rather have the heaviest rifle I could get than the lightest.

It's hard to give pertinent advice to the OP since we do not at this time know what he's hunting, what sort of terrain he hunts, how far he has to walk, nor what he does when he gets there.

Personally, I might walk 3/8ths of a mile, on a bad day, on relatively flat ground, climb up in a tree, or sit on the ground, and lay the rifle across my lap. What difference does it make if the rifle weighs 6 pounds or 9 pounds? What's 3 pounds on a less than half mile walk on flat ground?

If I had a 6 pound 7mm mag and a 9 pound .243, I'd much rather take the 9 pound .243. In fact, I wouldn't hunt with, nor even own, a 6 pound 7mm Mag. That recoil is intolerable for me and purposeless. No sense in beating my self to death when I could do the same job with an 8 or 9 pound gun, and a .243 or 7mm-08 at that.

I wouldn't even want a 6 pound .243.

That's not "bad advice", it's simply different than your wants and needs. The OP can take the information and decide what fits him.
 
Pre conditioning before hunting season will magically make your gear feel lighter, I promise you. The military has subscribed to the same formula. This is real world constructive advise.....We are talking about only 2lbs. 2lbs even for a older guy that is in moderate shape shouldn't be a game changer. Balance of the rifle is much more important than total weight. If weight is your concern, look at the weight of your boots, jacket,knife, pack, and any other crap you carry with you in the woods. There has been a big advertising wave in pushing creature comfort for hunters. Its not totally bad if taken in moderation but there is a element of prissiness about it when comfort is all you think about when hunting.

Hunt with the gun for a year and see how it feels before making a decision that is irreversible and possibly one you may regret since it is a handed down family heirloom.


This post reminds me of a new country song called "Granddaddy's gun" now playing on the radio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H74RqPzKrY0
 
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JMR40, that is a great post. Love the pics.

I think you and I hunt more similarly than me and some of the other guys (not that one is right or wrong, just different). My last hunt included 3700 vertical feet of elevation gain in one day, ending at over 10,000 feet (and a 186" muley). I leave on Monday to hunt elk where I park my ATV at 11,200 and hunt up from there. Ounces equal pounds in areas like that.

I have cut my entire hunting pack, including 80mm spotter and tripod plus food and water, to under 11 pounds by cutting ounces and buying high-quality gear. It allows me to hunt harder and be more successful.

I have had this rifle for over 10 years, but quit using it on most of my hunts in favor of an ultralight .300 WSM instead... all because of the weight. To me, if I don't use a gun because of its weight, then I will do what I need to cut that weight down so I can use it.

A perfect-shooting gun that I don't hunt with is useless to me.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I am thinking about cutting the barrel to 24" and having it rethreaded (plus a thread protector) so that I can take the BOSS on or off depending on the hunting situation. It might be the best of both worlds. Thoughts?
 
Your dad gave U a gun and your thinking of altering it? I would'nt....No way....My dad gave me a pre-64 model 70 standard in 270..Made in 48'....Is it light? Nope..and I wouldn't touch it....I still take it out about once or twice a year....
I have a stainless Model 70 Classic Featherweight with the BOSS..in 300 mag....It is a pleasure to shoot..and very accurate....
 
boss

Its been a while since this post started, so I hope you didn't cut the boss off. It will no longer be a tack driver if you do. I have the same gun and the reason I can shoot dime size groups with some of the toughest to group is the BOSS adjustment. If it has the muzzle break and its to loud buy the CR cover for it. If you don't like the way it looks simply sell it and buy a fluted bull barrel. It want be as tight on the group as the gun with the Boss but it won't ruin a good gun.
 
rdavidsonjr, are you implying that a barrel without a BOSS on it's muzzle cannot be a tack driver?

For what it's worth, Browning's explanation as to how BOSS works defies the laws of physics and ballistics. Their explanation only works if:

* all bullets leave at exactly the same muzzle velocity
* the same time for the bullet from case mouth to muzzle
* the pressure curve is exactly the same for each shot
* bullets leave exactly when the barrel's still

The barrel's constantly wiggling in all directions (mostly up and down) at different frequencies starting when the primer fires and until long after the bullet's left.
 
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