Custom 1911s

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kh1911

New member
Hi everyone, I am a gunsmith apprentice in Pennsylvania and I'm going to build Custom .45s and sell them in the shop and on Gun-broker. I know what I like in a 1911, but I wanted to get a few other opinions on what people were interested in having, whether it be a high polish blue GI style, or more of a "tactical" style pistol with beaver tail, tactical sights, etc. Basically im asking what you "Dream" 1911 pistol would be.

(Pistols will have hand fitted frame to slide, as well as hand fitted beaver tail and other parts, plus a trigger and action job. Finishes include Bluing, or polishing of SS, or Duracoat, which is basically like Cerakote only less expensive and personally I like the way it looks and feels better. Price will be between $1,300 to $1,800 )

Thanks Everyone
 
This is a tough market.

Personally, I like black or dark 2 tone guns built of quality parts that run 100% with a variety of ammo.

I would start with 5" steel guns. Then move to a 5" with alum frame and integral feed ramp.

Blue and stainless are old standbys. Duracoat is in a different league than cerakote. Not nearly as hard.

Not sure how Gunbroker will work for a custom 1911 by a gunsmith who is not known yet. I think you need a web site at minimum where your product can be seen.
 
(Pistols will have hand fitted frame to slide, as well as hand fitted beaver tail and other parts, plus a trigger and action job. Finishes include Bluing, or polishing of SS, or Duracoat, which is basically like Cerakote only less expensive and personally I like the way it looks and feels better. Price will be between $1,300 to $1,800 )
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In a nutshell you have to give your customers what they want, not what you think they want.

Question - Does your quoted price range include your work on a customer furnished gun?

IMHO, the 3 parameters in order of importance for a Custom 1911 are;

1) Reliability Tuning - Includes polishing the feed ramp & breachface, throat & polish the barrel, tune the extractor. Include at least 3 aftermarket magazines (Wilson Elite Tactical Mags, Tripp Cobra Mags, or CMC Power Mag +).

2) Custom Sights - On a 1911, I like a fiber optic front sight, either a Dawson or 10-8 variety, and a fixed, blind rear battlesight, either a Wilson or 10-8 variety,

3) Trigger - 4 to 4-1/2 lbs., suitable for defensive carry, short take-up, crisp break, short audible & tactile reset. At a minimum replace any MIM fire-control parts with tool-steel parts necessary to maintain the trigger job.

Test-fire the completed gun for zero to confirm accuracy and to confirm feed way and extraction reliability.That's my list, if I give you my gun, I would expect to have this work done for less than the $1.3K to @1.8K range. Good Luck with your endeavor.
 
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I would have a few options, all built with quality parts:

Carry:
3" -5"
Wilson Carry BTGS and Harrison/wilson carry hammer
Bobtail
Carry cuts
Ball cuts
tritium night sights
25LPI front strap checkering

Tactical/ Hunter:
5" +
picatinny Railed frame
ball cuts
Night sights
ambi safety
hi-ride BTGS
magwell
25LPI FS checkering

Competition:
5" +
Tungsten guide rod
bull barrel
hi ride grip safety
magwell
adj. sights
ball cuts
slide top serrations
rear slide checkering
25LPI Front strap checkering
 
You should do some Frame kits as well. I would be interested in a pre-fit frame/slide and barrel kit.
 
I'm always amazed that companies can successfully jump into the 1911 market making essentially the same gun that everyone else is making.
The guns from Ruger and Remington are no different from what you could already get from a half-dozen other companies.
A small share of the biggest pie - guns with beavertails, Novak sights, forward cocking serrations, ring hammers, etc. - seems more attractive than making something that nobody else is making.
If I were going to make custom 1911s, I'd offer things that nobody else does, and see if cornering that market is more lucrative than making me-too guns that are already widely available.
Maybe a base gun with a list of options, rather than the "production custom" style of Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer, et al., in which the gun comes with a specific set of features, and the customer has to pay extra to delete things you don't want or to add what you do want.
 
there's a sufficient shortage of the following combination in the marketplace:

5" government
railed frame (half or full)
supressor or high night sights
match grade threaded barrel .578"x28tpi
ambi controls
machined magwell or enlarged magwell
aggressive front strap and mainspring housing checkering
front and rear slide serrations with good traction
 
As one that's been down the road you are about to travel I sincerely wish you the best in your endeavors.

When it comes to custom 1911 smiths I can assure you there's a very long list of very talented smiths that you will have to compete against, I know many of them personally.

Keep in mind there's also a very long list of manufactures mass producing 1911's that will appear to have the same features you will be offering on your guns and they will do so at a cheaper price then you, even though their guns may not be the same quality they will be hard to compete with.

If you are not manufacturing your own line of parts, frames and slides you will be purchasing those items from those that do and most of those that do also build custom 1911 guns, the parts they use to build their guns cost them less then they will you.

If you are going to be a one man operation be prepared to spend at least 80 hours a week in the shop, that's with a minimal back log, when it gets to the point that your work is sought after, your back log passes the minimal phase and you will spend a lot more then 80 hours in the shop.

There's many times I would go back to the shop after eating supper work till midnight or later just trying to make a dent in my back log.

I've since pretty much retired, turn down work just about every day, I still may build one every now and then to sell and still do some machining work but I will no longer get to the point where I have to spend 80 hours a week in the shop.

As I said at the start I certainly wish you the best in your endeavors, however I do not envy you for the road you are about to take.
 
Its a tough market out there....

but personally, look at the spec of most any Wilson Combat full sized gun...and its what I want in a 1911. Personally, I own a pair of Wilson's a CQB in .45 acp ...and a Protector in 9mm...both great guns.../ if I want another 1911, it'll be another Wilson.

$ 1300 - $ 1800...you're competing in that lower middle price range with guns like Springfield TRP.../ I'm not sure that makes any sense...but good luck to you .
 
I assume you are not starting from scratch and will be using major components (frame, slide, barrel and even the grips) from a supplier. Who might that be?

How would you handle the serial number issue or is it an issue? Also, how would you handle warranty of your product.

I would attempt to help with your survey, but I am just not a good candidate. My experience and druthers in a 1911 are very simplistic and pedestrian. I like the basic pistol without extended beavertails, skeleton components and etc.

I would also think you will need some type of major liability insurance covering catastrophic failure resulting in injuries or worse.

Good luck with your endeavor. One would think it will require a significant startup investment.
 
kh1911 said:
Finishes include Bluing, or polishing of SS, or Duracoat, which is basically like Cerakote only less expensive and personally I like the way it looks and feels better.
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FWIW, Duracoat is nothing at all like Cerakote. Duracoat is a polymer coating -- basically a high quality paint. It's good stuff ... but it's not in the same class as Cerakote, which is a ceramic coating.

And I suggest you pay heed to Hunter Customs. If you're not familiar with the name, Bob Hunter is one of the best 1911 pistolsmiths around. He knoweth whereof he speaketh.
 
You're going to have a mighty hard time making your price point with the cost of quality components plus your time for fitting, finishing, polishing, etc.. When I had my dream 1911 built on a Colt that I already owned it cost me waaaaayyy more than what you've got planned. The parts alone took up most of your proposed retail price.
And I don't know anyone that pictures their "Dream" 1911 with a Duracoat finish.

At the price you're planning you'll be competing against some excellent quality factory guns backed by warranties and big reputations. Can you produce a better 1911 than a Springfield TRP or DW Valor for the same money? And do it consistently? That's the kind of competition you'll be up against.

You might do well to specialize in offering a particular style of build to start with, something that isn't currently being actively marketed by anybody big. I'd suggest a take on a GI style gun, without all of the extended parts, but really well fitted and accurate, with quality components, nice checkering and good sights. Kind of a take on a hardball gun that could be a nice "do everything" piece with a classic look to it, at a reasonable price. I've got all the customs I need but that is a gun that I'd be interested in.
 
How about offering the milling of slides for low mount sights, especially for the increasing popularity of small slide mounted dot scopes?
With the new USPSA category of Carry Optic division, that could be a very desirable offering.
 
I work with a few local gunsmiths and I admire their craft. My main guy is a Master Gunsmith with 40+ years of experience, who unsuccessfully tried to retire but had to go back to work since he had no pension or 401K and him & his wife couldn't live off their social security. We work well together and I think my guns work better than if I tried to be my own "YouTube" gunsmithing.

Years ago I used to have my guns worked on by Evolution Gun Works (EGW), their old shop was right up the street from where I used to live. Their President, George Smith is the most knowledgeable 1911 guy that you are likely to meet anywhere. When he moved the business up-county after his parts business took off, he dropped the pistolsmithing and gun building services, which I thought was a real shame since you could ALWAYS tell when You were shooting an EGW-tuned 1911 or BHP, their work always produced a really great shooting gun. But the company is doing real well, and they are just a top-notch group of professionals to know and do business with.
 
How about offering the milling of slides for low mount sights, especially for the increasing popularity of small slide mounted dot scopes?
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I've been doing that for years along with a lot of other 1911 smiths so that's not something new.

Go to www.huntercustoms.com pull up the Our Work page in the competition album there's some pictures with 1911's that have small reflex sights I milled into the slide ( what I call a low mount application).

I've done a lot of them, one needs to make sure the pocket is milled at the correct angle, if not the shooter will spend unnecessary time trying to find the dot in the sight, not good if you are trying to shoot fast A's or shoot six steel plates in 2 seconds or less from the draw.
 
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I've built all types of custom 1911's, I've had more request for guns like or very similar to the one in the above picture.

I think part of the reason for that is I brought this gun out after everybody and their brother including most major manufactures were making 1911 pistols with all the bells and whistles.

People that ordered this type of gun was ready for a change to a pistol with nice clean simple lines and no gadgets.

A gun that has reliability, is accurate enough to save your bacon any day of the week and noting on the gun that bites the shooter, she's user friendly.
 
Beautiful piece, Bob, just the sort of thing I was talking about.

Do you/can you install "suppressor" sights with your mini red dot sight cuts?
 
If your Master is letting you sell stuff out of his shop, do like Holland and Holland. I saw their approach at the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show - down the street from the SHOT Show that year. They chose to exhibit at the Arms Show instead of SHOT!

What they had was two shotguns, one each SxS and U/O (that's the way they say it in England) fully assembled but with metal in the white and stocks just blocks of walnut inletted to the actions. You got to pick your action, engraving style and specify stock dimensions. They would send the raw gun back to 33 Bruton Street, London, for completion to your tastes.

So, what you do is assemble a working gun and put it on display without sights, grips, or finish. Even plain GI controls. A Ransom Rest target and a pile of reliability trial brass would look good alongside.
On the other side, a row of the different sights, safeties, and beavertails you could install and even color chips of coatings and blued plates in different surface texture. The customer could pony up for the gun and you could install the options and finish in relatively short order.
 
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