Custom 1911 reliability in question

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thequickad

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I have seen pictures of Glock and SIG submerged in mud, Beretta firing with sands pouring down into the slides. But I have never seen any photo or heard such tests being performed on any of the 1911 pistols, especially the high cost customs. Are these pistols only reliable for target shooting?

:o
 
I can show you pictures of bigfoot and UFO's and it doesn't make that any more real or believable. ;)Beretta's were puking during the Gulf War because of the open slide letting sand in, and I've seen Glocks and Sigs take big pukes in sandy conditions dut ot how tight the barrel rides in the slides during recoil. A well built 1911 is just as reliable if not more than most of the newer wonder guns. All guns have problems. Glocks will sometimes blow up, Sigs will crack frames or little internal parts and 1911's will puke or break parts if not maintained or built right to begin with.

I'll stick with the 1911. It's proven itself through 4 wars, millions in service all over the world and most all of the tactical trainers and Spec-Ops teams use 1911's. If the others were as good or better they would be used.

Brian
 
I keep hearing of these "torture tests" for defensive/military/police sidearms - soaking in salt water, drowned in mud, dropped from three stories, slung across a concrete floor into a block wall...ANY gun that stands up to that kind of abuse would represent a modern day miracle!

I plan to keep mine clean and carry it in a holster that will retain it. The chances of it EVER getting even close to this kind of mistreatment are so remote that they can be discounted. Mine better not puke when they are properly cared for or they won't travel with me! But I wouldn't blame them for puking if I treated them like these "tests" do.

Mikey
 
The "real" Model 1911 underwent its torture tests long before any of us were born, in 1909 and 1910. Passed well. Further tests were conducted in 1917 and 1918 in France, and in the 1941-1945 in Europe, the Pacific area, etc. The gun built a reputation for reliability that is now being destroyed by cheap junk clones, made from trash parts by people who don't know (or care) about quality or workmanship.

Jim
 
I agree with the above stated.
No other handgun I know of, has seen as much combat, and proven it's design over and over again like the 1911. Glocks are nice and fine, Sigs are beautiful pieces of machinery, but I trust my 1911s over any of them.
 
All the high price custom 1911's have very tight tolerances. This is why they can boast about their solid, smooth feel, and great accuracy. Keep in mind, accuracy is mostly effected by the barrel to slide lock-up, not the frame to slide fit. But at the same time, the tight tolerances can get "tripped up" more easily by dirt and debris. That is why older G.I. 1911's had a lot more play between the frame and slide - to allow dirt/debris to get out of the way of the recoiling slide... But don't get the wrong impression, the custom guns have great reliability records. Just keep them properly maintained, and there shouldn't be any problems.
 
This is easy one. Any mechanically inclined
person will tell you that precision slide
bearings (which is what a customized gun
consists of) are sensative to dirt. In order to make them work in dirty conditions,
such bearings must be sealed (shielded).
Million examples around, including production
machinery, cars, etc...

Moving parts of the guns are not usually
protected by any seals or shields...and of course, any gun, not just 1911, which was
built with tight tolerances, will not like
dirt. But, target guns are not for use in
trenches...so, you just do not use them in
trenches.
 
Please check "AMERICAN HANDGUNNER" Jan/Feb'00 issue for a description on the FBI SWAT pistol, and the testing it underwent to be chosen.
A 1911......

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
That played no small part in my decision to step away from the HK. Thats what I got now.
I thought I was satisfied with the USP.
After my first kiss I thought I was in love too.


------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
 
Maybe my time in the Marine Corps in the fifties had a great influence, but I never considered anything but a 1911A1 when I got back into shooting last year.

I spent 8 years as a Virginia State Trooper and came to love the Model 10 S&W. Not alot of power, but reliable to a fault. Coming right out of the Corps and joining the Department, I was impressed by the Model 10. It didn't rattle and it was more accurate than anything the Corps ever handed me.

An old Marine buddy got me interested in shooting last year. I bought a Kimber Classic Custom, and it was so good I bought another. I can't relate to some of the horror stories told on this board, nor can any of my many friends who also own Kimbers. I have said on other boards that I thought that maybe we Virginians were getting a better grade of Kimber because of our clean living...:-)

BTW, I bought a new Springfield HiCap 45ACP, but I'll have to wait until Springfield does some custom work before I report on it.

The point is, the 1911A1 is an excellent design and you should have little trepidation about it's reliability. Although Brian makes his living as a smith, he can probably give you a few free tips on tricks to do to your 1911A1 when it arrives.

Have fun shooting this masterpiece!
 
German officer's were using the 1911 during WWI and WWII because they would keep firing long after the Lugers they were issued lock-up.

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I gotta get a cheaper hobby.
 
I would like to thank everyone for their inputs. But we are talking precision vs reliability. It seems the common theme is that 1911 are reliable as long as it is not tuned to tolerate dirt. I am interested in how it functions after it is tuned, like a Wilson or a Les Baer. Does everyone agree that tight tolerence cannot handle dirt?
 
I'm pretty sure the Army DID test fire the 1911 after mud dip, and sand bath, and it had some failure to feed, but I'll bet the
M-9 had more, I still wonder why the Army
and Marines didn't adopt the Browning Hi-Power during WW2? most of allies had HPs and
9mm would have been plentifull behind enemy lines, I'm having this liking toward the 9mm
HP even tho I've been a 1911 fan for so long
I REALLY like the style and Hi-capacity and the accuracy and simple take down, its a much
more modern gun than the 1911, Lugers suck,
Mauser 96 is scary with that bolt.1911 is still the best for simple defense gun, even the cheap made ones now can be fixed if metal is half assed hard, said my peace :}
 
No, we do not agree that 'tight' guns won't run when dirty.

My custom Caspian 1911 is so tight I got a two-piece rod just so I could take it apart, but I haven't needed to. When new it took about 500 rounds before the gun started to balk. So I took it all apart, cleaned it squeaky clean, lubed it (BreakFree and Tetra-Grease), put it all back together, and started shootin'.

I now have over 3,000 rounds (mostly 200gLSWC/W231, some jacketed, some 225 and 230g lead) since cleaning without a single failure of any kind.

Just my personal test; it's been so reliable it will serve as my Y2K-day carry gun.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
Tolerance vs. Fit (worst casing)

Tol. example: .450 +/- .002

Fit. Example O.D..451
I.D..452

Result is an interference fit. Tight fits will by the nature of the beast be less tolerant than loose fits, dirt, thermal coefficients (expansion - contraction)etc.
"tolerance stacking" determines how cost effective the manufacturing can be or not be.
The more loosely the tolerances are stacked the less the manufacturing cost hence cheaper to market. Process variation (all processes) add or subtract the end result (quality, cost, mean time before failure) its all in the calculation.
For fun try to define "Quality" and see how much varition we accumulate in the "definition process" The more variation in the definition the greater the "Cost of Quality"
 
quickad:

No.

But I have shot some seriously dusty windy sandpit USPSA matches with it, with mags dropping in the sand.

Maybe my experience is an anomaly?

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
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