Curious about mis-matched SN on stock & pistol

K

ken obert

Inactive
information on S&W 38 special

Does the lanyayd loop missing from the butt of the pistol decrease the value? My 38 special SN SV 780261 has checkered wooden stocks, would they have to be removed to see if SN was present to assure they were original or not? What does the 3 capital P's (one under barrel after SN, one on the cylinder and one @ the top left side between cylinder and hammer) stand for?
 
Yes, but you can buy a replacement ring. If you buy a real beat up parts gun then there won't be a loss of value. A new replacement ring will reduce the collectable value'

Yes and no, Usually there will be matching serial numbers inside the grips, not always. Use an appropriate sized screw driver to avoid scratching things up.

I have no idea what the P is. Might be a stamp from whatever organization the gun belonged to.
 
I'm thinking that with a serial number that late, the checkered wood stocks are NOT going to be original to the gun.

They could be, but I would be very surprised if they were.
 
Information on S&W 38 special

Thanks gentlemen on your information regarding my questions.
I have read the checkered stocks were available in some guns made prior to 1942 but with the high SN it doesn't make sense for my pistol.
If the same SN was behind the stocks that is on the butt it would prove original but would not explain why they were checkered instead of being smooth. Thanks again guess I may have to look behind the stocks to cure my curiosity.
 
That "V" in the serial number makes me wonder if it's a victory model. The checkered grips may indicate it was one sold to one police dept or another. But origonal Victories had smooth minimal wood stocks, along with the lanyard loop.

My department (way back then) purchased Smith Victories, and Colt Commando's for resale to uniformed officers.
 
Yes, it is a Victory Model. The "S" means it is fitted with the then-new (and still current) hammer block safety. The original grips would have been smooth, but they could have been replaced or checkered by a previous owner.

In the earliest contract M&P's S&W simply used what they had in the way of grips, which was the checkered grips with the medallion. They soon switched to plain walnut (which were simply the regular grips with the shaping and checkering work skipped to save time and money). S&W always put the serial number on the inside of the right hand grip. The reason was that they polished the grips and the gun down together before sending the gun for final finishing - the number made sure the fitted grips were mated back to the gun on final assembly.

Jim
 
S&W 38 special SN SV 780261

Thank you. I will look behind the stocks. Have either of you removed grips from a 38 special? I know I have to be careful. Any good pointers? Okay I have removed the stocks and as you all have said there is a stamped # on the right stock and it DOES NOT match my serial #. Instead the # is quite different being marked with the #03794. A question I have is this # representative of a victory model stock early or late production?
 
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I have removed the stocks from my
S&W 38 special SN # SV 780261 and found a lower #
03794.

My question is the lower # on the stock indicative of an earlier manufacture date or is it an original stock for the victory series pistols ie should there be a V preceding the stamped #?
 
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I have removed the stocks from my
S&W 38 special SN #

My question is the lower # on the stock indicative of an earlier manufacture date or is it an original stock for the victory series pistols ie should there be a V preceding the stamped #?
Click to expand...

Welcome to TFL!.
If you posted a link to a picture, it didn't make it.
So its difficult to see what you are asking about. But, I'll make a guess.

Unlike many European manufacturers (notable the Germans), US makers generally do not serial number parts to match the gun. The numbers found on certain parts are "assembly" numbers. They play some part in the factory ID and tracking of the part, and do not link it to a specific gun. if the numbers happen to match part of the gun's serial # (i.e. last two digits), it is a coincidence.

With a gun like the S&W Victory model, so much time has passed that it is tough to always be able to give a positive ID on things. The stocks on your pistol could be the original ones, or could easily be a replacement (one or both grips) made sometime during the gun's life. Putting on the same S&W grip replacing a broken original (which is what most often would happen) keeps the appearance the same, unless there are clear differences in finish wear.

Stock is the proper term for the wooden parts of a handgun, but these days most folks say grip, even those who get upset when someone says clip instead of magazine.:rolleyes:
 
If there is no "V" preceding the number on the butt, it is an S&W M&P and not technically a "Victory Model."

The situation came about when S&W, for the very first time, began to approach a production of a million guns of one model. But their numbering machine only went to six digits! Replacing the machine in the middle of war production would have been nearly impossible, so they decided to add an initial letter that would be stamped into all the guns when the frame was made, then do the normal numbering later. They first planned to use "A", but someone suggested "V" since "V for Victory" was a common slogan at the time. So the "Victory Model" was born. The "V" and later the "S" (indicating the new safety block) were and are part of the serial number, whether as prefix or suffix. A look at one of the guns will show clearly that the letters were not stamped at the same time as the rest of the serial number.

So the difference between the contract M&Ps and the "Victory Model" is in the "V" serial number and only there. In fact, the term "Victory Model" was used by S&W only in advertising; it was not used in any contract and was never used by the Army.

Jim
 
mis matched

Sorry Mr Jim I forgot to add thr SV in front of the SN I posted in the previous thread ( i have edited it) but there is an SV stamped on the butt of the pistol along with the serial # 780261. The stocks are checkered and not original to the pistol. The low # 03794 stamped on the right stock does not have a V...is that common & is this low # very early 1942 production?
 
Since they started in Victory Model production at V1 in November 1941, and ended at VS850000 in 1945, your number SV 780261 would have probably been made in early 1945 or very late 1944. Only an S&W letter could tell you for sure. (780261 without the SV would date to early 1941.)

The stock stamping for Victory models did include the "V". 3794 would be a very early M&P (c. 1899) and would be a round butt model. I doubt 03794 is a serial number at all; the stocks may be an after market product and that is a stock number.

Again, pictures are really needed for complete answers on this kind of thing.

Jim
 
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Mis matched

Thank you. I will have to read the instructions on "how to" send a picture but I will if I figure out how to attach them to the threads. Again thank you for the info.
 
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Yep - Someone upgraded the Smith with modern grips.

If an "original - looking" revolver is desired, a lanyard & smoothies can be found/installed to restore it cosmetically.



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Here is a Victory model that has been in my family since 1946 ....my uncle bought it new in box when he got home from the war...became a deputy sheriff and wore this gun for 30+ yrs...( and almost all the parkerized finish is worn off )....but I still have the gun and his holster he wore all those years....

Mine is a V 716147 ....so a little earlier than yours, but not much...you can see the original stocks on it ...and the landyard is kind of tucked under the butt in this photo but its there...

Still shoots great .../ not worth much on the market these days ( $ 50 - $ 100 or so in this condition )...but I've kept it, after he died, about 30 yrs ago ...and I'll pass it on to one of my adult kids one of these days...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82016&d=1339792974

View attachment 90341
Here is another photo of it ...you can see the landyard ring you'll be looking for, on it better...
 
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