I was considering getting a C&R FFL but was wondering if I still can in California. I remember a while ago, the laws on C&R guns changed. You used to be able to buy the gun with no waiting period but now you have to wait 10 days like all other guns. Does this law affect C&R FFL holders as well? Any info on this topic would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Curio and Relics in California
- Thread starter G23
- Start date
This is posted on Empire Arms web site (http://www.empirearms.com/)
Special regs of California C&R FFL's
The current (June 1, 1999) accepted interpretation regarding C/R from the CA DOJ is:
Using your C/R FFL you can buy and receive UPS/USPS (in conformity with federal law) from out of state any firearm that cannot be readily concealed on the person, i.e. long rifle, that is a federally defined C/R that is at least 50 years old, excluding of course machine guns. It MUST be C/R AND more than 50 years old. CZ-52 and M-44 dated 1953 are NOT C/R in California.
NO PISTOL or concealable firearm, regardless of C/R status can be ordered from out of state and shipped in, or sold within the state without going through a 01FFL.
Non dealers, which includes private parties with or without 03FFL C/R license can freely sell each other any rifle that cannot be readily concealed on the person that is a federally defined C/R that is more than 50 years old. Except to minors, drug addicts and those with felony or certain misdemeanor criminal records. This is supposed to be on an occasional basis only - a fuzzy concept for which you must check the statutes and case law yourself, but a few a year is probably ok. Just don't make a business of it.
ANY transfer by a 01FFL dealer in California, even if it would be exempt if made between private parties, requires a DROS (Dealer Record of Sale) and background check and 10 day wait unless you have the COE. The COE eliminates the wait, but not the background check or its cost.
A 03 ffl can sell and ship a long rifle to an 03ffl who resides out of state, subject to the receiving 03's state's laws and the usual federal laws regarding transport. A non-03ffl could ship C/R accross state lines to a 01FFL or 03FFL subject to receiver's state's laws.
It is not clear whether a 03ffl could sell and ship a C/R pistol to an out of state 03FFL. On first pass it looks prohibited because transfer of any pistol/concealable in CA must go through a CA 01ffl. I'll update this issue when I can confirm what the DOJ thinks.
A federally defined C/R pistol, regardless of age, can be imported if it is legally purchased out of state by a CA resident with a 03ffl and if physical possession of the piece is taken by the CA 03FFL outside of CA. It can be imported by the CA 03FFL purchaser only - hand carry or UPS to yourself. It must be reported within 5 days to the DOJ on their new form and paying the DOJ $14. Buying a CZ52 with your C/R 03FFL in Las Vegas or Arizona and bringing it back is OK if you register it in 5 days.
A CA 01FFL dealer can sell and ship a c/r pistol or rifle freely to an 03ffl who resides out of state, subject to the redeiving 03's state laws and the usual federal laws regarding transport. The transfer must be directly to the out of state address; if the non-resident wants to pick it up in CA, all usual rules apply (DROS/10days). This was confirmed as OK by DOJ and done by a listmember who was visiting CA last month.
The statutes create problems because many otherwise C/R models have manufacturing dates that span the 50 year mark, for example, M44, M31/59, Russian SKS etc, and it's perfectly legitimate to buy one made in 1948, but illegal to buy one (except through a CA 01FFL) made in 1949. Since there is no way to tell the difference with many of these, (often the barrel is stamped with a date but the receiver isn't) many dealers won't (and shouldn't) ship a rifle that cannot be readily dated.
The only thing a COE does for 03FFL holders is that it lets you skip the waiting period for C/R purchased in state from a dealer. You must have both a 03ffl and COE. Even with the COE you still have to do a DROS form and background check and pay the fee each time, usually $14 + dealer mark up of $3-$4. So, unless you absolutely can't wait the 10 days, the COE is a $72, plus cost of fingerprinting and annual renewal fee that is probably wasted.
Several of the corporate dealers in So. California won't accept a COE anyway. I bought in M-39 from Truner's last week and the clerk said that they were not authorized to accept the COE without headquarters approval. I've gotten various conflicting stories about this, and skipping the wait without a COE, etc,. and I think the problem is ignorance. I have not researched the COE as it applies to non C/R firearms.
Special regs of California C&R FFL's
The current (June 1, 1999) accepted interpretation regarding C/R from the CA DOJ is:
Using your C/R FFL you can buy and receive UPS/USPS (in conformity with federal law) from out of state any firearm that cannot be readily concealed on the person, i.e. long rifle, that is a federally defined C/R that is at least 50 years old, excluding of course machine guns. It MUST be C/R AND more than 50 years old. CZ-52 and M-44 dated 1953 are NOT C/R in California.
NO PISTOL or concealable firearm, regardless of C/R status can be ordered from out of state and shipped in, or sold within the state without going through a 01FFL.
Non dealers, which includes private parties with or without 03FFL C/R license can freely sell each other any rifle that cannot be readily concealed on the person that is a federally defined C/R that is more than 50 years old. Except to minors, drug addicts and those with felony or certain misdemeanor criminal records. This is supposed to be on an occasional basis only - a fuzzy concept for which you must check the statutes and case law yourself, but a few a year is probably ok. Just don't make a business of it.
ANY transfer by a 01FFL dealer in California, even if it would be exempt if made between private parties, requires a DROS (Dealer Record of Sale) and background check and 10 day wait unless you have the COE. The COE eliminates the wait, but not the background check or its cost.
A 03 ffl can sell and ship a long rifle to an 03ffl who resides out of state, subject to the receiving 03's state's laws and the usual federal laws regarding transport. A non-03ffl could ship C/R accross state lines to a 01FFL or 03FFL subject to receiver's state's laws.
It is not clear whether a 03ffl could sell and ship a C/R pistol to an out of state 03FFL. On first pass it looks prohibited because transfer of any pistol/concealable in CA must go through a CA 01ffl. I'll update this issue when I can confirm what the DOJ thinks.
A federally defined C/R pistol, regardless of age, can be imported if it is legally purchased out of state by a CA resident with a 03ffl and if physical possession of the piece is taken by the CA 03FFL outside of CA. It can be imported by the CA 03FFL purchaser only - hand carry or UPS to yourself. It must be reported within 5 days to the DOJ on their new form and paying the DOJ $14. Buying a CZ52 with your C/R 03FFL in Las Vegas or Arizona and bringing it back is OK if you register it in 5 days.
A CA 01FFL dealer can sell and ship a c/r pistol or rifle freely to an 03ffl who resides out of state, subject to the redeiving 03's state laws and the usual federal laws regarding transport. The transfer must be directly to the out of state address; if the non-resident wants to pick it up in CA, all usual rules apply (DROS/10days). This was confirmed as OK by DOJ and done by a listmember who was visiting CA last month.
The statutes create problems because many otherwise C/R models have manufacturing dates that span the 50 year mark, for example, M44, M31/59, Russian SKS etc, and it's perfectly legitimate to buy one made in 1948, but illegal to buy one (except through a CA 01FFL) made in 1949. Since there is no way to tell the difference with many of these, (often the barrel is stamped with a date but the receiver isn't) many dealers won't (and shouldn't) ship a rifle that cannot be readily dated.
The only thing a COE does for 03FFL holders is that it lets you skip the waiting period for C/R purchased in state from a dealer. You must have both a 03ffl and COE. Even with the COE you still have to do a DROS form and background check and pay the fee each time, usually $14 + dealer mark up of $3-$4. So, unless you absolutely can't wait the 10 days, the COE is a $72, plus cost of fingerprinting and annual renewal fee that is probably wasted.
Several of the corporate dealers in So. California won't accept a COE anyway. I bought in M-39 from Truner's last week and the clerk said that they were not authorized to accept the COE without headquarters approval. I've gotten various conflicting stories about this, and skipping the wait without a COE, etc,. and I think the problem is ignorance. I have not researched the COE as it applies to non C/R firearms.