Critique some shooting

V

verti89

New member
Hey guys I am including a link to a vid of some shooting I did with some of my family and friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_47TxtXQD8
Its about 7 minutes of footage of 5 people shooting a mix of 5 different guns. The experience ranges from first time to roughly 1000 rounds fired. I won't say which one I am because I want honest feedback. Have a look and tell me what you think of each shooter and what your guess is as to which one I am. Any advice is more than welcome. I didn't include any shots of our targets but we are shooting at about 15 yards and sharing targets until it became impossible to tell which hits were yours. For the most part we are all hitting relatively accurately but I am looking for mostly a critique of form right now. We will depict the shooters as such:

Girl:
Red Shirt:
Blue Shirt:
Black Shirt:
Orange Hat:
 
Girl:
1. Needs a different stance instead of the "relaxed stance." One leg straight and one leg bent is not a good stance.
2. Stop slamming the trigger back.
3. Stop anticipating recoil. Didn't seem to do it with every shot.

Red:
1. Stop leaning forward.*
2. Change stance to get left arm as straight as right.

Blue:
1. Straighten arms some.
2. Bring gun to face level instead of below it.
3. Don't be afraid of it. Was jumping most times the gun was fired.
4. Stop slamming the trigger back.

Black:
1. Stop leaning back.*
2. Don't roll shoulders forward.

Orange:
1. Stop leaning forward.
2. Don't roll shoulders forward.
3. Stop anticipating recoil. Evident with revolver when he fires an already fired shell.

*could be due to camera angle

Some, maybe all, can use a grip change(can't tell for sure since there are no close ups of grip). Use just the finger nail portion of your finger on the trigger. Hold the gun in your strong hand. Place your arm straight down at your side. You want the barrel to be in line with the elbow. If you are putting too much of your finger in the trigger guard, the barrel will be pointing away from your body. Change grip until the barrel is in line with elbow. Doing this will give more control over the pistol, less recoil.

Some others might be slamming the trigger back also and I just couldn't tell because of distance from camera. Only one I am pretty sure was not slamming the trigger back was red shirt, but I can't be sure like mentioned.

I watched about four minutes of it. My guess is red shirt.
 
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FULL DISCLOSURE:
When you put yourself out there, you are open to criticism, so please don't take it personally.
Me, I'm not an expert, I'm not professionally trained, nor am I licensed to train or even to critique video clips of other folks who shoot, but this is what I see.

Everyone looks comfortable with a handgun, which is a good start, and not to be taken for granted. In watching this group, I don't get the idea that it's an unsafe bunch of folks to be around. I think we can all agree that we can't always say the same thing from ranges we've visited!

I'd say that black shirt guy seems to be the most natural, he looks like he knows what he is doing, is doing it safely, is doing it to the best of his ability and he also doesn't appear as though anything he is doing is for the benefit of the audience. Red shirt guy is much the same way. Hard to figure which of these two looks more relaxed and comfortable with his shooting, but I would lean toward black shirt guy.

On the far other end of the spectrum is orange hat guy. Orange hat guy seems like he has some mental idea of what he's "supposed" to look like, what kind of rigid form he's supposed to lock his body in to, he got this aggressive lean that actually seems to become even more of an aggressive lean, and he really looks like he's got his mind LOADED with trying to look like he's doing it a certain why. I won't go as far as to say that he's trying to show off, but it just appears as though he's trying to make his body conform to some idea of how he's supposed stand and shoot. And it doesn't look like he has refined whatever stance he's trying so hard to accomplish. He moves, he flinches, and at the least, it's got to seriously interfere with quality shooting. It also doesn't look very comfortable.

Blue shirt guy seems like he's not done a heap of shooting, but he looks comfortable enough and it doesn't appear that he's putting on a show like orange hat guy, but he also doesn't look like a fellow that shoots a lot like black shirt, red shirt and orange hat.

Girl seems comfortable shooting, but her stance wants to tell us that she thinks any/every gun is going to recoil like a .500 Mag. Even though she knows it does not, she still has a stance that prepares her to resist getting knocked over. I think she'd have more fun and shoot better if she had a more relaxed, natural stance.

If I walked up on this group, I wouldn't get the heebie jeebies that someone is going to get hurt. (if you go to public ranges, you know the folks I'm talking about) The two folks that stand out are black shirt guy and orange hat guy. I would imagine that orange shirt guy probably has the most experience and knowledge of shooting, but feels like he's being looked to as the "boss" of this group, and he's not entirely comfortable in the role. Black shirt guy may or may not be a seasoned shooter, but he's got much more focus and relaxation when he's on the firing line.

I won't pick apart trigger control and specifics of stance because I'm not qualified to do that, and the video is a little blurry anyhow.

As for me, I'm quite sure that I've looked like each and every one of those guys (probably never looked like the girl!) in my years of shooting. Probably looked like orange hat guy a few times, too, but quit the moment I was cognizant of it! ;) As for what I see, I may be full of it in my assessment. But that's how it looks from here.
 
I won't say which one I am because I want honest feedback. Have a look and tell me what you think of each shooter and what your guess is as to which one I am.
Click to expand...
No idea at all. Hopefully not orange hat guy, because I ripped on him pretty good. :eek: Of course, there's hope for orange hat guy, even if you are him. Consider it "constructive criticism."
 
I'm at work so I don't really have time for a full write-up, and I don't remember if everybody is guilty, but two glaring problems that should be stressed.

Keep your fingers off of triggers unless on target and ready to shoot. A few weren't diligent about that while adjusting, moving, assessing the target etc.

Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
I know you could be in the middle of nowhere, but be conscious of where you're pointing.
 
Girl and blue shirt (0:50) failed to practice rule number 3!

I am not an advocate of the isosceles hold. I prefer the Weaver Stance. The push-pull of the Weaver two-hand hold is much better at controlling recoil. The girl could use the Weaver to her advantage. The guy in the blue shirt nearly let the single action gun jump out of his hand, his grip was so loose. Blue shirt really needs to use the Weaver stance and grip.

Orange hat and red shirt both used the Weaver push-pull to control the recoil of the various guns. Red shirt seems to be trying for more speed. If you can cover your group with your hand, then that is accurate enough.

Black shirt, Red shirt and Orange hat guys were doing well. I liked Red Shirt's style a bit more.

Is it the camera setup which makes it look like they are all leaning way forward.

1. All firearms are always loaded.
2. Always keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Always be sure of your target
 
Yes the camera is at a bit of a tilt but there is also a good chance that orange had and red shirt are leaning forward too much. Also thanks for the safety reminders and the pointers.
 
Camera at an angle or not, whats with putting all the weight on the front leg and bracing the back leg like you are expecting artillery piece recoil? Lots of tension in the posture of all the shooters. You can be strong without being tense. Square up a bit to the target (too much blading causes unneeded tension and inhibits free movement), bend the knees (lower CofG=stability), unhunch the shoulders(tension) and strengthen the wrists and elbows (absorb the recoil energy with your back and legs not your hands). Consider breaking the gun hand off vertical a bit. Rotating slightly inboard alligns wrist bones and muscle in their strongest, mutually supportive configuration. Don't believe it? Try throwing a punch with your fist straight up and down.

Girl is in classic girl stance. Hips forward, upper body back behind hips. If the body is like a spring when absorbing recoil then the girl's spring is already preloaded and less capable of absorbing more energy. Bad technique for rapid fire as each recoil impulse builds on the one before and pushes you further off balance

#2 Weight bias to back leg, Limp wristing, not following thru after the shot.

#3 Orange hat: Braced for atomic recoil in legs (see above), Weaver seems to work for him.

#4 Blk T: too stiff and vertical, bend the legs, roll the upper back forward and get the head in front of the shoulders instead of behind them. Long, straight skinny springs are easier to flex out of shape than short, thick bent springs. Being pushed out of battery shows in the need to reestablish position between shots

#5 Red shirt: allows recoil impulse to rotate his otherwise stiff arms upward at the shoulders forcing him to take a lot of time returning to battery. Strengthen the shoulders and absord the recoil with the back
 
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I am not sure how you would not have your hand vertical?? I mean its either that or gangster style horizontal right? I guess maybe I misunderstand?
 
I didn't read any of the responses but the guy in the red shirt is probably the best shooter. Pretty decent stance and very little flinch when dropping the hammer on an empty chamber. If he's keeping his sights on tearget, he should be hitting close to home.
 
I'm mostly a practical pistol shooter (USPSA & IDPA) so take this as it is knowing that.

The guy in the blue shirt would be DQ'd from a match for unsafe gun handling immediately. He wasn't the only one either, but seemed to have the most egregious muzzle discipline of the bunch. Watch that muzzle.

Finger discipline. Sights not on target, get that finger outside the trigger guard. Outside straight along the pistol. Hard to tell w/ the resolution, but there may have been several "FINGER!" warnings shouted if that were a match.

Now I'll get into the tips that some may chalk-up as competition-minded.

What's with the track start foot position? Looks contagious by the end of the video w/ everyone doing it.

Square-up to the target, feet even, shoulder width or slightly wider. Weight slightly forward on the balls of your feet.

I'd suggest a standard isosceles stand like the black-shirt guy, not the red-shirt's weaver (weak elbow broken, lower) stance.

Single hand shooting: Still square-up to target. Clench weak-arm fist and hold to chest OR some bullseye guys hold a belt buckle. Just don't let that free hand dangle in the breeze.
 
I'll keep it short and very basic

Girl: needs to find her stance because she uses two different stances in the video. The first has the wrong leg forward and the second looks like she's staring down a linebacker.

Blue shirt guy is very loose and looks comfortable. The camera angle looks like he dosen't have the gun high enough line up the sights (but thats not his fault)

Orange hat: Needs to figure out if he wants to shoot isosceles or weaver because he has his shoulders squared to the target like the isosceles but his strong side leg is back like a weaver. I would tell him to pick one and go from there.

Black shirt guy: I would say loosen the arms (elbows)

red shirt guy: only saw one handed shooting but it looks ok.
 
Verti - "I am not sure how you would not have your hand vertical?? I mean its either that or gangster style horizontal right? I guess maybe I misunderstand?"

vertical = straight up and down
gangster=turned sideways, gun flat to earth
off vertical= somewhere in between

Take up a boxer's stance and throw a punch. Hold your punch at maximum extension. Look at your hand. Imagine holding a stick in your hand. The stick will be generally up and down but is very unlikely to be straight vertical. Assume this position with your gun in hand.
OffVertical.jpg


Being slightly off vertical aligns the structures in you wrist and forearm into their strongest configuration giving you a stronger platform with which to absord recoil. It is very helpful shooting two handed and extremely usefull if shooting one handed.
 
Girl, orange hat and blue shirt have noticeable flinch/jerking trigger (orange hat and blue shirt with .44 Mag).
All could stand to relax arms a bit to soak up recoil.
Won't comment on stance and leaning due to sloping/uneven terrain.
No idea which one is you but gonna pick big guy in blue shirt cause I'm a big guy too:D.
 
Its very difficult to critique from a video. Also, being able to see the shots on target is important in diagnosing any errors. I'd recommend taking some training if your serious about improving your shooting. A knowledgable instructor will help immensely in pointing out any errors and offering valid suggestions.
 
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