Crimping 357 for lever gun

B

Bucksnort1

New member
How much should I crimp .357 JHP bullets. This is for a lever gun. While unloading some unfired rounds from this rifle, one of them has the bullet pushed in so it's almost flush with case mouth. I shoot a lot of these from this gun and have never had this problem.

When I seat these bullets, I remove the bell by adding a slight crimp.
 
??? If you shoot these a lot and never had the problem before, you must be doing something different or using different components. I’m use to Marlins in 357 & 44. I put in a firm crimp because OAL is critical on Marlins.
 
Slight crimp is not enough. in revolvers you can end up with bullet jump. In tube fed guns bullet set back, like what you had happen. With grooved lead bullets the rule was to roll it over until your nail did not catch when running your finger down the bullet. With jacketed bullets with callalures its not quite as easy, but I try to make sure my case mouth is pushed into the callalure firmly.

I would wager this has been happening regularly to some degree, just not as severely, but you just have not noticed it, if you are just putting a slight crimp on it.
 
While unloading some unfired rounds from this rifle, one of them has the bullet pushed in so it's almost flush with case mouth.
Click to expand...

If you still have it, measure the case length of that one round where the bullet pushed back. My guess is that it is slightly shorter than the rest, and that was enough different to turn your "slight crimp" into "no crimp", with predictable results.

UNIFORM case length is important to uniform crimps. When you set your die, cases longer than what you used to set your die get overcrimped and cases shorter don't get enough crimp.

My method is to use a factory round. run the ram all the way up, with the seater die backed out (and the seating stem backed out a bit in the die body, so it won't contact anything.

Screw the die body down over the factory round until the crimp shoulder of the die body firmly contacts the loaded round. (hand tight). set your lock ring there. Adjust the seating stem down to contact the bullet nose.

remove the loaded factory round and you're ready to seat and crimp in one step. Minor adjustments may be needed, your first few rounds loaded will show if this needs doing.. Cases must be uniform length, and if you change bullets, you'll have probably have to adjust seating some.

I use Lyman and RCBS dies, the seater die removes case mouth flare, THEN crimps (when adjusted to do so).

Been using this method for 50 years, it works for me.
 
To amplify on what 44AMP said, uniform case length is critical to a good firm crimp.

I've had trouble getting uniform crimps on Hornady cases from fired FTX rounds (the gummy tipped jacketed rounds). Apparently, they use a shorter case to some extent with the FTX rounds.

Also, the last batch of Starline .357 brass that I bought a year ago, had varying case lengths. Enough so that a uniform crimp in was nearly impossible until I trimmed them all to a uniform length.

Lastly, if you are getting bullet set back with rounds fed from a tubular magazine lever gun, I'd suspect your sizing die is not sizing down enough...i.e., not enough case neck tension. Have you had set back with that die set before? As a test, NRA recommends pushing loaded round against a flat surface...if they withstand 40 lbs. of pressure, they're good to go. You can do this with a bathroom scale easily enough...and it will tell you if your sizing die is over sized.

Best regards, Rod
 
Case Length

UNIFORM case length is important to uniform crimps.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what 44 AMP said.

I load for a Henry 357. I basically only shoot one loading in my Henry (have lots of 357 revolvers). It's gobbs of W296 under a 158gn JSP. But W296 requires a heavy crimp no matter what anyway - revolver or lever.

For a long time, I tried to get away without trimming my 357 brass, but the lack of crimp uniformity made it a must - at least for me, anyway. Before trimming, I could feel the difference in handle effort between longer and shorter cases. No, I never ran any tests. But good sense told me that if I wanted a quality product, I needed a consistent crimp. For a consistent crimp, I needed a consistent case length. For that, I needed to trim my 357 brass. So now, it's part of the reconditioning process (along with sizing\decapping, flaring). After flairing, I measure their length. About one in 5 or so comes up long (for me, >1.283") and I toss it into the "to be trimmed" can. When I get about 30 or so, I break out the trimmer. I can't remember my trim to length and that info is packed away right now - I think 1.278".

Trimming is a pain, but now that I'm in my more patient years, I think it's worth the time.

BTW, I don't have problems with my 357 Mag ammo jumping crimp - in any firearm ;)

P.S. - Same with 44 Mag.
 
OP said:
When I seat these bullets, I remove the bell by adding a slight crimp.
Click to expand...
NO! ::eek:
The 357 is not a rimless autoloader headspacing on the mouth.
Particularly in the levergun, roll that case mouth over and solidly into the crimp groove.
 
Another really good crimping option is the Lee collet crimp die. It’s easier on the brass, holds as good or better than a roll crimp, and is slightly more tolerant of small variations in case length. It’s especially useful if you like shooting copper plated bullets, you can crimp harder without cutting through the plating compared to a hard roll crimp.
 
OP said:
When I seat these bullets, I remove the bell by adding a slight crimp.
Click to expand...

There is actual danger associated with that approach, as firing a bullet pushed deeply enough into the case can create a significant pressure increase. Many lever guns have a slight bottom ramp into the case mouth to smooth feeding. If yours has that, such a condition could blow the case out and down into the action. This can do serious damage. You need a firm crimp into the cannelure (jacketed bullet) or crimp groove (cast bullet) to prevent this. If you have a bullet with no cannelure, the suggestion to use the Lee Collet Style crimping die is a good one.
 
You want enough crimp so that when you take a loaded round with bullet crimped in place and push the bullet against the edge of your bench (while holding the case in your hand) and the bullet stays in place and does not move back into the case .
Push Firmly and Crimp Firmly .

Read Post #9 ... UncleNick is giving you the straight info .
A bullet shoved back into the case is BAD !
Gary
 
I'm probably concerned more about case tension on the bullet than I am about the crimp in the situation described. Even with no crimp I wouldn't be able to push the bullet deeper into the case with recoil from my Rossi 92 in the same caliber, with ammo made using my dies.

I would be measuring the specific diameter of those JHP bullets, and also verifying the inside diameter of a freshly sized case with the sizing die that the OP is using.

Something's very wrong, and it isn't necessarily the crimp.
 
a decent roll crimp for a revolver is fine for a lever gun. There is such a thing as too much crimp when you crush the bullet. I would suggest you set your crimp setting with a factory round after you have one round to the length you need to hit the middle or top of the crimp groove with the case mouth. Back out the seating stem, set crimp by twisting in the die until you feel resistance, then lock the die body. Put in your reload and it should crimp. Then set your seating stem down and lock it in place. Try seating a bullet on another case. Your crimp and length should be good to go. If not, you'll just need a half turn on the die body and/or seater stem.
 
Good point AlaskaMike.
A good crimp is all well and fine, but for tubular magazine rifles I've learned that neck tension is more important to prevent setback. I would do a little measuring of the pre and post sized case compared to the bullet diameter. The problem with the 357 is that somebody could grab a box of .355" diameter bullets by mistake.
Now I don't think of 357 as "hard recoiling", but there are a lot of cartridges in that tube and bouncing the rifle on the butt pad - well it might be enough.
I load for a 45-70 guide gun and I use a 3' drop test to make sure the bullets stay where I put them.
 
And the SAAMI groove diameter spec for .357" is .355", so a gun matching that spec would shoot 9 mm bullets just fine and many folks do. Some barrels are actually at .357" groove diameter, though, so you need to slug your bore to see what you have.
 
I shoot a lot of .357 through lever guns. I have 4 of them :) I crimp enough for them to drop freely into my Lyman case gauge. I can't recall ever having a problem. I go slow and make sure it's as light as I can go.

You might try cutting the mag tube spring if you haven't already. One of the things I do right away is to shorten the mag tube spring just to make loading easier. You can also notch the loading gate spring to make that eaiser.
 
I use a heavy factory crimp on everything I reload for my 1894 CB LTD in 38/357 ... it is religion to my handloading philosophy.

I utilized a Lee Factory Crimp die for years but lately have gone to a Redding Profile Crimp die they sent me ... I honestly can't tell much of a difference in 38/357. I can in 44 sp/44 Mag and 45-70.
 
I find the 38/357 RCBS dies put a nice taper crimp on my cases which helps with speed loaders on swing out DA cylinders and the minimal edge break on my M92 carbine. There is less working of the case mouths
 
My Lyman seater puts a good ROLL crimp on the brass, when adjusted to do so. I've been using it quite successfully since before the Lee Factory Crimp die existed. See no reason to change to anything else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top