Crimp on .44-40

D

Doc Hoy

New member
I shoot black powder in a 73 Winchester (Uberti clone with 30 inch barrel). Using Goex with 28 grains and almost no compression and 30 grains with about 1/8 compression. 205 grain RNFP cast bullet.

I use a light crimp and don't seem to be having any problems in this tube magazine.

Should I be using a heavy crimp on this round?
 
YES !@!!

The LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE is the best way to get it also !

Uncompressed Black Powder can be an unpredictable explosive.

And so it goes...
 
Wil,

Can you expand on your comment about uncompressed black powder's unpredictability? I recall from reading Weinegart's Pyrotechnics, forty-odd years ago, that the report from a firework with a partially filled tube can be louder than from one with a filled tube, but my supposition has been that the latter burst the paper seams before the powder burn got fully underway. If you know of evidence of pressure variability and particularly of increase using BP in partially filled cases, I would appreciate you reporting on it for everyone's information.

Thanks,
Nick
 
My question was not about the gap between the powder and the bullet...

It was about the crimp on the case.

.44-40 has a thin wall at the neck. I try to flair as little as possible and crimp as little as possible to get better case life.

I never load any BP or subs with a gap.
 
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I run a normal crimp with that same cartridge in that same gun (24" barrel) just for insurance.
But the Old guys with the Old bullet (roughly Lyman's 427098--no crimp groove) relied on that
highly-compressed powder column to prevent bullet setback.
 
Now we're talking....

Thanks Mehavey.

I am using a Lee RNFP which does not have much bullet length above the crimp ring.

In order to get the proper COAL I have to seat the bullet with a little of the crimp ring showing.

If I seat it deeper to hide the ring I will get more compression but COAL will be down to about 1.50. Is that okay?

I have a .429 at 240 which is a much longer bullet but I am a little reluctant to mess with the combination I have now because it performs pretty well in terms of POI.

And I must hasten to apologize to all a y'all. My computer messed me up. I actually use this round in an 1866 clone from Uberti with 24 inch barrel. My computer converted my typing to read 1873. . . . . ;o)
 
Unlike smokeless powder, which is progressive burning, black powder has a constant burn rate no matter whether it's uncompressed, lightly compressed, or heavily compressed.

The amount of compaction can affect the rate at which the charge burns, but has little to no effect on the burn rate of individual grains once they are ignited.

Compressing the charge ensures that there's no air gap between the powder and the bullet. An air gap can be a problem with black powder, as it can cause a bulge in the chamber.
 
"Should I be using a heavy crimp on this round?"

If you're not having any issues with bullet movement in rounds in the magazine, then no, it's not a concern.

You may, however, want to adopt at least some light powder compaction in your 28-grain load just to ensure that you don't leave an air gap.
 
Mike.....

Thanks for the wink back.

With 28 grains of Goex the top of the powder is just above the neck line even when shaken. The bullet I use goes in to the neck line.

I don't use a drop tube and so I suppose it is possible that with movement on the way to the range and in the magazine, the powder may settle such that there is a gap formed at the top.

Can I seat the bullet lower in the case, reducing the COAL but adding some compression?

Is it true that all I really care about with small variations in COAL is the way the round feeds in the receiver?
 
Well, you could always add a felt or cardboard overpowder wad to give you that extra thickness.

Try loading a test round with a drop tube to see how much potential settling you MIGHT get in a worst case scenario.


"Is it true that all I really care about with small variations in COAL is the way the round feeds in the receiver?"

With a modern gun with a magazine cutoff, pretty much yes.

If you were shooting a real or authentic reproduction Henry, the kind that didn't have a magazine cut-off and required every cartridge to be the same length to ensure proper feeding, then you'd really need to be studious about it.
 
Assuming the same elevator for the `66 as in the `73, the cartridge OAL needs to be
in my experience 1.58" - 1.60" (± a very few thousandths) to be 100% reliable).

I'd use a powder column/seating depth combination the guarantees that contact with
the bullet base to maintain this range. A little compression to ensure that contact is a
good approach standard. (And don't worry about any grooves showing)

Q: are you running really soft bullets?
 
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Much over 1.6" and the rounds won't clear the lip of the magazine tube as the elevator rises.
Much under 1.57 and the forward elevator edge tends to catch on the next round's base coming out of the magazine tube.

It's individual gun dependent (a bit), and not a big deal with most 44-40 designed bullets, but still a consideration.

I'm running/casting five different bullets:
- The original classic 44-40 bullet: LYMAN-427-098
- The slightly blunter classic: LYMAN-427-666
- The bluntest classic: RCBS 44-200-CM
(all three of which are clean nose designs)
- The "Other" supposed 44-40 favorite: SAECO's #446 (which has the slight cleaning band ahead of the crimp)
- and the one that's slicker than grease: SAECO's #420 classic truncated-cone bullet design:

3343dwx.jpg
 
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