Crimp, .45acp, coated bullets w/cannelure

[robhic]

This is a question about .45acp, coated (poly?) bullets with crimp-groove.

I loaded up some .45acp using 200gr, RN bullets coated with red poly-coat. The bullets have 2 grooves. The .45 uses a taper crimp, not roll crimp. I stayed within spec which put the top groove of the bullet right below the case mouth.

There was, however, a raised ridge even with the mouth. This, in turn put the case mouth a bit above the actual bullet end (ogive?). So there was a slight raised area with this ridge and case mouth. Make sense so far?

I had a couple of double-feeds and need to check more, but I'm thinking this raised area might be catching the feed ramp so the round doesn't enter the chamber cleanly.

I'm not gonna use the groove and taper-crimp as usual. Can the crimp be above the surface of the bullet without issue? Should I leave the first groove open and cripm at the 2nd groove to possibly facilitate entering the chamber? Should I do something else besides using a different bullet?

These are coated bullets from Bayou Bullets. Thanks!

 

[dahermit]

Double feeds are more frequently associated with magazine problems rather than cartridge problems.

When people describe something, they are seeing it in their mind's eye...pictures of what they are talking about. When you encode what you are seeing using writing, much is left out and while it is perfectly clear to you what you have posted, it may not be very clear to others. Pictures always help.

I suggest that you dismount your barrel and drop your cartridges into the chamber to see how they fit. The forward movement should be stopped by the case mouth striking the corresponding end of the chamber. When in the chamber, they should not be "stuck" and you should be able to rotate them easily. If not, use layout dye or Black marker on a round or two to see just where any obstruction is on the cartridge.

Assuming that you have a 1911 you may want to have the people over on this site about your problem...they are the experts on 1911's: https://forums.1911forum.com/

 

[muncie21]

From your description, it sounds like you are adjusting OAL based on the lube grooves of the bullet you're using, versus checking against your barrel or a case gauge. Do a plunk/Spin (look it up, if you aren't familiar with it) test to determine you bullet seating depth.

BTW, the Bayou bullets are coated using Hi-tek (from Australia, I believe) and are not the same as a poly coated bullet.

 

[reddog81]

If your .45 ACP bullet has crimp grooves the first thing I'd do is verify it's not a .45 Colt bullet. If indeed the bullet is for .45 ACP I'd ignore the crimp grooves and seat it to whatever OAL is correct for that bullet.

 

[robhic]

OK, here is a picture of the bullet(s) I used: http://www.bayoubullets.net/45-acp-200-gr-rn-100-ct/

As shown, there is a ridge or shoulder that you can either crimp (roll) into or ON the shoulder bringing the actual case mouth a tiny bit above the bullet surface. I made 50 rounds and not all gave problems but more than I'd expect or like.

I am loading for a Glock G36 and I did use the barrel for a "plunk test" to make sure they'd be OK. That seemed to be alright and fit wasn't a problem. I am figuring it's that slight raised area possibly hitting the ramp. The gun is 2 years old and hasn't given problems with commercial bullets nor most of the coated bullets used here which prompted this question.

Does seating the bullet just back of the ridge so as not to add to the height of the ridge seem better? The taper crimp should do that, correct?

The jams weren't bad, dropped the magazine and the stuck bullet fell out as it was just partially in the chamber. But a jam is a jam and unacceptable if I can prevent it.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[dahermit]

Standard procedure it to seat such bullets with the shoulder (you call it a "ridge"), of the bullet flush with the case mouth (see my picture...Red and Blue bullets are the same save for different color), and set your die to give a slight taper crimp...just enough to remove the "bell" from the expanding stage. If ammo is loaded as such, there should be no problem associated with the ammo. Review the "plunk test" procedure...the round should enter freely, and be easy to rotate in the chamber with your fingers. Also, when doing the Plunk Test, note where the head of the cartridge stops in relation to the end of the barrel...it should be flush. If not, adjust the bullet in or out (seating depth), until flush is achieved.

If your gun malfunctions, then the problem may be with your gun, not your ammo.

"Double-feed" if two loaded cartridges have tried to enter the chamber at the same time it would indicate that there is a problem with the magazine. A picture of the gun with the malfunction would help...so we get some indication that we all are talking about the same thing. Nevertheless, if a cartridge has slipped out of the magazine before the one in the chamber has fired, you likely have a weak magazine spring.

 

[robhic]

The blue bullet in your photo is exactly what mine look like, except they are round nose (RN) and red instead of flat point and blue.

Standard procedure it to seat such bullets with the shoulder (you call it a "ridge"), of the bullet flush with the case mouth (see my picture...Red and Blue bullets are the same save for different color), and set your die to give a slight taper crimp...just enough to remove the "bell" from the expanding stage

I'm gonna seat them a tiny bit more so as to have the mouth exactly over the shoulder. Mine (right now) are a tiny bit from the absolute front edge.

... you likely have a weak magazine spring.

I'm wondering about this. Probably 500+ rounds and everything I've shot until these few coated bullets ran perfectly. Shot 50 plated flat point bullets I made with no problem.

After I re-seat the 10 bullets (as described above) I have left and see if they improve I'll change my data in the log. If not, I guess I'll probably replace the springs.

I can't believe 5 mag springs would be "wonky" after only 500 or so rounds.

 

[dahermit]

I can't believe 5 mag springs would be "wonky" after only 500 or so rounds.

If I read your original post correctly, you have been having problems with a bullet(s), that you have recently tried and the gun functioned correctly before. If that be correct, the issued may be your magazine lips. For the 1911, (yours is a Glock, I know), there are three different styles of magazine lips...hardball, wadcutter and hybrid. Each style releases the cartridge at a different time or angle in the cycle. This begs the question: Were the bullets you used before the trouble manifest itself, of a different style?

By the way, the bullets in my picture are identical save for the color...home cast RCBS 201 Wadcutters.

 

[robhic]

This begs the question: Were the bullets you used before the trouble manifest itself, of a different style?

All I've put through this .45acp pistol are round nose (RN) and jacketed hollow point (JHP) for the most part. I only really shot the flat point (FP) bullets that I loaded, myself. And all were plated or jacketed, not cast of any type.

These coated RN bullets I am using here are the first I've tried. I made 50 RN bullets and shot 40. Five "hiccups" outta 40 is not good, IMO. But the same day about 50 of the plated FP bullets I made all fired without issue. Same gun and same 5 mags.

I went and seated these coated bullets just a tiny bit more last night. Now, the case mouth is exactly even with the front edge of the shoulder like yours are in the picture. This setting is about .003" deeper than originally. I'll probably try these 10 next week. Thanks for the information.