Cougar, PPK, 232 opinions wanted

M

Mikul

New member
My wife will be looking for a handgun in the near future and I've been doing some looking around for guns that meet her critera (narrow grip, not too heavy slide pull). She'd also like it to look nice.

I'd like some opinions from people who have owned or shot any of the 3 guns listed below.

- Beretta Cougar
- Walther PPK/S (I've heard it's finikey about ammo)
- Sig 232

She'll be looking at other guns in other calibers (up to .45) and will get whatever she wants, but I'd some some background knowledge before she buys.
 
I own two of the three.

In .45 caliber, the Cougar is a joy. It rides very low in your hand and I find the recoil to be very mild for the caliber. I posted a side by side shooting comparison between the Cougar and a Sig P225 back in January and at that time, after several hundred rounds of side by side shooting, I thought the Cougar actually had less recoil than the Sig when it came to hot 9mm loads versus 45.

The grip on the Beretta, however, is a double stack and is substantially wider than either of the other two weapons that you mention. The trigger placement and the wonderful curve of the backstrap make the gun easy to handle for small hands, but the measurements are what they are--it's definitely wider than the Walther.

The slide racks back with the precise click-click of any Beretta and the finish is fabulous. The only thing to watch is that the sharpness of the decocker can bite you if you let the slide return to battery too quickly.

Putting out a post on the Firing Line asking for commentary on the PPK and the Sig 232 is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I happen to love my little Walther and find it to be a reliable gun with FMJ's and Winchester Silvertips. It's a beautiful gun to behold in just about any configuration--aftermarket grips are so abundant you can practically choose to have a different grip to match every suit you own. You have to watch the way you hold the gun, a 'high hold' will result in being bitten by the blowback of the frame; however, my eleven year old son shoots my PPK at the range regularly and loves the gun.

The Sig fans (and I own two Sigs) are going to post that the US made Walther is a jammomatic that they gave away rather than hastle with, there hasn't been a good PPK made since they left Germany, the Sig is an improvement on the original German design, and then go on to claim that the 232 is the finest weapon made since the dawn of time.

The Kahr fans are going to post that the Sig is too wide and too big for the caliber and that you ought to go with a real gun like a K9 or a K40.

The Walther fans are going to claim that they've never had a problem with jamming or biting (I love my PPK, but it took 150 rounds of ammo to shake out the bugs in the feeding) and wonder what the questions are all about.

Ultimately, you're going to get alot of reccomendations to buy other weapons. But in response to your question, of the three you named, I would rather own the Cougar if it was going to be my only weapon. Easy to shoot, feels like an extension of your own hand, good caliber, great looks, and reliable...
 
I've only owned the 380 PPK. It's well made, 100% reliable and more accurate than a pocket auto has a right to be. BUT!, the slide bites my meaty mits in the web of the hand every time I shoot it. So it doesn't get shot much. If I conciously try to grip it lower to protect my hand, accuracy goes to pot. I like it enough to keep it, but I wouldn't buy another PPK if I had to replace.
 
I like the PPK over all the above, for safety and size and looks.


There is a big "However"

Many American Made Walther are trash. Took my third walther to come out a winner. The stainless at the time was too soft..slide started to expand after 120 rounds...got the blue and had so many troubles they sent me a new one in its place, had it nickled and it's O.K. Still not up to German/French standards, but O.K. http://www.aimsurpus.com sells used PP police trade ins for 250 U.S.D. they are about the same size as the 232, shoot the potent but easy .32 acp, after the cost of a good hard chrome job it would be about the same price as well and very strong.

no experiance with Berretta model mentioned.

Like the Sig a very accurate and ergonomic gun, not the absolutely smalest pistol built, but is concealable.. see if you cant find an older one in all stainless steel.
 
I enjoyed my SIG 232. I sold it to a friend to fund a smaller .380 Mustang Pocketlite. That said, the SIG is accurate and slim but the grips are slicker than snot. Function was flawless.
 
I do not own a Cougar. I had a blued US PPK and unfortunately it was the worst gun I have ever purchased (and I have owned many guns). I have a blued Sig 232 with the alloy frame and it is extremely reliable and accurate. I put Hogue grips on it and it feels like it was made for my hand. That said I have never carried the 232, I usually carry a Kahr P9.
 
Get what she likes and shoots best. You've listed several really good choices.

I love my SIG 230 and, as others have said, it is reliable and accurate. The blued models are much lighter than the SS and for carry, light is good.
 
I had a .45 Cougar for several months. It was a good pistol and I never had an problems with it, but I never got to like it all that much and traded it for a Kimber. Gremlin is right about the grip being thick, and my wife found it way too big for her. If it fits your wife, it'd be a good choice if she wants something relatively big.

My wife had a US-made Walther for a few months and really loved the thing. It was very accurate and she had no jamming problems. But, the extractor broke in less than 250 rounds and the cheap casting that S&W replaced it with (they handle Walther repirs now) was mis-shapen and even worse looking than the POC that Interarms had originally assembled it with. Lots of people like Gremlin have had no problems with their US Walthers (and he's done an admirable job of defending them here on TFL, BTW). But, many others have had parts breakage problems like my wife's, and that recurring defect was reportedly a big reason that the KY State Police dumped it as their back-up weapon and went with Glocks.

Since my wife likes the basic Walther design so much we checked out the Sigs, but the grip is much beefier than the Walthers and she didn't like it. If you could get thin replacments grips, then it's probably a better bargain in a .380 than the German Walther's, as it's <1/2 the cost of a new Walther. If you're comfortable with a .32 caliber, I second the idea about buying a used .32 Walther.

In keeping with the already mentioned practice of making suggestions unrelated to your original choice of pistols, I'd suggest looking at the CZ 83 (similar to the Sig dimension-wise)if you like the Walther blow-back design. Again the grip is thicker than the Walther, but they can be had for about $300 and CZ makes very reliable and well-built pistols at excellent prices. Also, give the Kahr pistols a once-over if you haven't already ruled them out, esp. the P9 which has good ergonimics for small-handed folks and whose early production slide-stop problems seem to have been largely cured.

Re manipulating the slide, all of the .380's have pretty low-profile slides and the slides on blow-back pistols will all probably be a little stiff. The Cougar (and the P9) have more grasping area, and I'd give the P9 the edge of all those I mentioned.
 
when the wife and i were shopping for a carry gun for her, we tried the Beretta Cougar, and Sig 232 weren't able to locate a ppk for her to try. both were very nice, well made guns. for my personal trying, as i need to be comfortable with her gun as she needs to be with mine, i found the cougar to be a little too small for me to handle. the 232 was small, but a resonable fit in my paw. we got her the 232, changed the grips <hogue> and now as it should be, the firearm is an extention of her arm. each one has it's virtues and it's detriments, it's up to her to figure with which she is most comfortable.

Adept
 
I own an Italian made Cougar in 40S&W. Accurate and dependable as I could ask for.
 
I just got a P9 KAHR. Light weight, shoots great. I have had a few PPK/S Walthers. Some would feed anything, some were ammo specific, all were .380 and being blow-back had a pretty snappy recoil.
 
My wife has a Walther PPK-S .380 (stainless, Interarms, used to be mine until she appropriated it) and she shoots it very well. This particular pistol is surprisingly accurate, quite reliable with Federal Hydra-Shok 90 grain rounds, and the gun fits her small hands well.

If the pistol had to be replaced it would likely be with a polymer Kahr 9.
 
Gremlin predicted correctly. I'd recommend the Kahr K9 or P9 over the Sig 232. The have thin grips and are easily used by women with small hands.

M1911
 
My experience is almost exclusively with the Walther line though I own or have owed several of the other German handgun lines.

Right off, I love the Sig P230 and P232 in 7.65mm. I almost bought one but I waited too long and it got sold.

The German PP and PPK that I own are some of the finest examples of German workmanship I have ever laid eyes on.
Neither have ever given me one rounds worth of trouble.

I have an American SS PPK/S that took 150 rounds to start running right, but after which, has been 100% reliable with Silvertips.

I also have a blued American made PPK that has never given me any problems though the quality of workmanship is not to German standards. This will reliably feed Silvertips, Cor-Bon, and Hydra-Shok equaly well.

Aside from each of the brands, please make sure that your wife will be able to rack the slide on these blowback operated pistols. The recoil spring in these small guns are a bit stiffer because of the action, than that of a locked-breach pistol. It does help if the hammer is cocked first.
My ex- couldn't do it hammer back or forward.

Gremlin, I loved your post earlier in this thread. I've seen the PPK/P232/Kahr wars and have experienced the battle.
It's nice to see more civilized people on a board that can discuss the merits of each handgun brand without resulting in a third World War.
 
Both the wife and I have shot the P232 and Cougar (in .40 S&W).

I am a big fan of the Cougar, but my wife found it too "chunky" in almost every regard, it is unusual in having a full sized grip mated to a compact/sub-compact length barrel. It is too big for 9mm IMO, but the .45 sounds like a great prospect, I have yet to shoot one in that caliber though. It is not a gun that I would personally recommend for a female shooter however.

The P232 was recommended to my wife by our concealed carry instructor in Pittsburgh, I like the P232 a lot, but my wife found it difficult to manipiulate the slide as it is quite slim in profile.

The wife's final choice, and it also happens to be the choice of a lot of lady shooters, was the Heckler & Koch UCPc 9mm. The broad slide proved very easy for her to handle and the large (some say goofy) controls are VERY easy to manipulate, she liked the grip in spite of it being quite chunky because it is not over long (as she found to be the case with the Cougar). She has however yet to shoot one, but I doubt her opinion will change.

Mike H
 
I have the Cougar, P232 and PPK. Cougar is terrific for me(in .45), but the grip is too thick for my wife to handle comfortably. Walther PPK and SIG P232 have a bit too much recoil in such a small round (.380ACP) for my wife to use regularly and racking the P232 slide is not an easy task for her. Take a look at a SIG P239 in 9mm as this one seems to be tailor-made for a lady...Dan in GA
 
1)Sig 239,Sig makes a great gun.
a very close
2)Beretta Cougar
a very distant
3)PPK,if not for Bond their sales would really drop.
 
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