Tucker 1371
New member
Does anyone know how much I might expect to pay for a WWII era German Luger P08 that is not quite in collecter condition? Something I could shoot without feeling like a criminal for destroying a piece of history?
Cost of a Luger P08 shooter, non/collector
- Thread starter Tucker 1371
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I would say to watch the auction sites for "non matching" or Russian reimports for sale. Those will cost you probably over 4-500$ even though they are sometimes just nasty looking. One problem with "non collectable" examples might be that the bore is rotten anyway and might not be the best shooter, although jacketed ammo will go thru a pitted barrel with no problems. Have you ever seen the stainless steel replicas that were out maybe 10 years ago or so? I have seen them turn up for sale used but they were going for 600$ even though they are replicas, but pretty well made ones. You can have a P-08 relined or rebarreled to make a shooter out of a dog, but that is an additional expense. Actually I had a Russian with a rough bore relined once. I had tried firing it before and after, actually I did not really notice any improvement. It was not a tack driver for a fixed barrel design. The new bore looked nice though. Same as relining broomhandle Mausers in 9MM. The trigger pull was not the problem IMO. Less than ideal but not as horrible for me as some claim they are.
I haven't seen any WWII Luger, of any description, sell for less than a couple of thousand dollars, these last few years - with some going for several thousands.
Even a 1970's-era Interarms import beater will cost at least $1K.
I don't even recognize those junk Stoeger .22's from the 70's as Lugers, BTW - but even they're going for $500.
Even a 1970's-era Interarms import beater will cost at least $1K.
I don't even recognize those junk Stoeger .22's from the 70's as Lugers, BTW - but even they're going for $500.
I had a nice 98% or better matching correct 1936 dated and I think I payed 750$ for it maybe 5 years ago. I found a Russian that was identically dated and that was the shooter. Obviously the Russ. was plenty cheaper but I forget how much. Now I kinda wish I still had the nice one but it was an ornament, a showpiece that you can't leave out in view, etc. and had alot of green tied up in it that I wanted for shootin' guns. So bye bye. Even my P 38's are gone and all I got is a NIB P-1 to show. No shootin' takes half the fun out of the equation. What else could I do, invite friends over for brandy and cigars and let them stand around and admire my "collectables"?
Tucker 1371
New member
Thanks, really looking for a German one, I've already got enough commie crap 
(just kidding I love my SAR2 AK).
I've found a few on Gunbroker w/ no reserve and a starting bid of around $850 but some of them from the same seller say DWM in the description. Can anyone explain what this is to me?
This one doesn't have the DWM thing, it says Mauser so here it is: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=119771745
I dont know my Lugers too well if you can't already tell.
(just kidding I love my SAR2 AK). I've found a few on Gunbroker w/ no reserve and a starting bid of around $850 but some of them from the same seller say DWM in the description. Can anyone explain what this is to me?
This one doesn't have the DWM thing, it says Mauser so here it is: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=119771745
I dont know my Lugers too well if you can't already tell.
To some extent, it depends on how anxious you are to get that Luger. If you are in a hurry and hit the high ticket gun shows, expect to pay at least $1000-1200. But there are plenty of Lugers around and you should be able to find a "shooter" Luger for well under $1000.
Auctions are also not a good source for pricing info, since people tend to get carried away at auctions. Try small local shows or just inquire at local gun shops and antique shops that may have a few guns. If you let it be known that you are interested, stuff will sometimes come out of the woodwork.
Jim
Auctions are also not a good source for pricing info, since people tend to get carried away at auctions. Try small local shows or just inquire at local gun shops and antique shops that may have a few guns. If you let it be known that you are interested, stuff will sometimes come out of the woodwork.
Jim
Tucker 1371
New member
Nevermind I feel like an idiot, I just remembered what DWM stands for.
I did a little research and it seems that Russian Lugers are kinda rare, the article (by this Luger collector guy) said most of those were from 1902-1906 though. You probably already know what you've got but I thought I'd say something just in case. Here's the article.
http://www.landofborchardt.com/other.html
I did a little research and it seems that Russian Lugers are kinda rare, the article (by this Luger collector guy) said most of those were from 1902-1906 though. You probably already know what you've got but I thought I'd say something just in case. Here's the article.
http://www.landofborchardt.com/other.html
These companies manufactured Luger pattern pistols at various times - most pistols marked, some not.
Some manufacturers used "secret" letter codes, to denote their company - like "BYF" ILO "Mauser".
1) DWM - Deutsch Waffen und Munitions, Karlsruhle
2) Erfurt - The German royal arsenal, Erfurt
3) Mauser - Oberndorf
4) Simson & Co - Suhl
5) Krieghoff - Heinrich Krieghoff, Suhl
6) Bern - Waffenfabrik Bern, Bern, Switzerland
7) Vickers Ltd - England
Besides the German services, the German manufacturers made Lugers under contract for other countries, such as Portugal, Bulgaria, Netherlands (Dutch), Brazil, and more.
They are ALL "German" Lugers, i.e., made in Germany.
Some manufacturers used "secret" letter codes, to denote their company - like "BYF" ILO "Mauser".
1) DWM - Deutsch Waffen und Munitions, Karlsruhle
2) Erfurt - The German royal arsenal, Erfurt
3) Mauser - Oberndorf
4) Simson & Co - Suhl
5) Krieghoff - Heinrich Krieghoff, Suhl
6) Bern - Waffenfabrik Bern, Bern, Switzerland
7) Vickers Ltd - England
Besides the German services, the German manufacturers made Lugers under contract for other countries, such as Portugal, Bulgaria, Netherlands (Dutch), Brazil, and more.
They are ALL "German" Lugers, i.e., made in Germany.
Bill DeShivs
New member
The P1 is a version of the P38, not the P 08 Luger.
I think the use of the term "Russian" means a Luger that had been captured by the Russians in WWII and then sold on the U.S. market. These, like K.98k rifles, are often called "Russian capture" or "RC". The Luger was never made in Russia.
Genuine original Lugers were made in only two countries, Germany and Switzerland*. Terms like "Russian Luger" or "Bulgarian Luger" refer to pistols made in Germany under contract for those nations.
Some reproductions have been made in limited quantites in the U.S., but they are not considered "true" Lugers by collectors.
*The so-called "Vickers Lugers" were assembled in England, but the parts were made in Germany.
Jim
Genuine original Lugers were made in only two countries, Germany and Switzerland*. Terms like "Russian Luger" or "Bulgarian Luger" refer to pistols made in Germany under contract for those nations.
Some reproductions have been made in limited quantites in the U.S., but they are not considered "true" Lugers by collectors.
*The so-called "Vickers Lugers" were assembled in England, but the parts were made in Germany.
Jim
To answer a question received by e-mail which may be of general interest.
There were only ever three sets of Luger machinery and tooling. They were at DWM in Berlin-Charlottenberg and later Berlin-Wittenau; at the German (Prussian) State Rifle Factory at Erfurt (then in Saxony, now in the reformed state of Thuringia); and at the Swiss arsenal at Bern. There are reports of Lugers marked Spandau and Amberg. The latter are almost certainly fake; the former most likely also fall into that category but may be reworks. Vickers in England never made Luger pistols; they finished (or refinished) German parts in the post-WWI period to fill a Netherlands contract when Germany was banned from arms production.
After WWI, the Erfurt machinery and tooling went to to Simpson & Co. in Suhl; the Simpsons were Jews and the Nazis took over the plant. Whether by sale or simple takeover, the Luger machinery was moved to the Krieghof factory where it was used to make pistols after 1935, primarily for the Luftwaffe. At some point in WWII, the Luger machinery, as such, vanished.
After several corporate name changes, in 1930 DWM ceased to exist and the Luger machinery and tooling, along with some technical personnel, were moved to the Mauser factory at Oberndorf am Neckar. That factory ceased Luger production in 1942 and the machinery was either retooled for P.38 production or scrapped.
About 1960, Sam Cummings of Interarmco (later Interarms) felt the time was ripe for a new Luger. He consulted with Mauser, which then (1967) purchased the machinery and tooling from Bern. The first production was of a clone of the Swiss pistol, which had been modified from the original German design. After indications that the German style would be a better seller, Mauser modified the tooling to produce that version and production began in 1971. The pistol was a moderately good seller, but never met sales projections and all production of what was then called the "Mauser-Parabellum"* ceased a few years later.
*In the 1920's Stoeger, U.S. importer of the German-made Parabellum pistol, trademarked the name "Luger" in the United States. That not only prevents any other maker from using that name in the U.S. but also allowed Stoeger to legitimately call an inexpensive .22 pistol the "Luger" even though it bears only superficial resemblance to the original German pistol.
Jim
There were only ever three sets of Luger machinery and tooling. They were at DWM in Berlin-Charlottenberg and later Berlin-Wittenau; at the German (Prussian) State Rifle Factory at Erfurt (then in Saxony, now in the reformed state of Thuringia); and at the Swiss arsenal at Bern. There are reports of Lugers marked Spandau and Amberg. The latter are almost certainly fake; the former most likely also fall into that category but may be reworks. Vickers in England never made Luger pistols; they finished (or refinished) German parts in the post-WWI period to fill a Netherlands contract when Germany was banned from arms production.
After WWI, the Erfurt machinery and tooling went to to Simpson & Co. in Suhl; the Simpsons were Jews and the Nazis took over the plant. Whether by sale or simple takeover, the Luger machinery was moved to the Krieghof factory where it was used to make pistols after 1935, primarily for the Luftwaffe. At some point in WWII, the Luger machinery, as such, vanished.
After several corporate name changes, in 1930 DWM ceased to exist and the Luger machinery and tooling, along with some technical personnel, were moved to the Mauser factory at Oberndorf am Neckar. That factory ceased Luger production in 1942 and the machinery was either retooled for P.38 production or scrapped.
About 1960, Sam Cummings of Interarmco (later Interarms) felt the time was ripe for a new Luger. He consulted with Mauser, which then (1967) purchased the machinery and tooling from Bern. The first production was of a clone of the Swiss pistol, which had been modified from the original German design. After indications that the German style would be a better seller, Mauser modified the tooling to produce that version and production began in 1971. The pistol was a moderately good seller, but never met sales projections and all production of what was then called the "Mauser-Parabellum"* ceased a few years later.
*In the 1920's Stoeger, U.S. importer of the German-made Parabellum pistol, trademarked the name "Luger" in the United States. That not only prevents any other maker from using that name in the U.S. but also allowed Stoeger to legitimately call an inexpensive .22 pistol the "Luger" even though it bears only superficial resemblance to the original German pistol.
Jim
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