correct dies for 6.5 x 284 Norma

C

Coppershot

New member
Mates,

I have a set of Forster dies marked 6.5 x 284 Win. Forster only seems to make one set of dies in 6.5 x 284. Will these dies work for 6.5 x 284 Norma?

Thanks.
 
1. Have 6.5 x 284 (Norma) dies.
2. You have brass in 6.5 x 284 (Norma).
3. Winchester makes a .284 cartridge, that is necked down to 6.5 to make the 6.5 x 284 Norma. Winchester does not make a "6.5 x 284 Win".
4. Redding makes Redding Deluxe 3 Die Set 6.5mm/284 Winchester (Norma) which is probably a better name for the cartridge.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/65x284/
http://www.6mmbr.com/sixfive284.html
http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/C and C Dwgs - TOC - Rifle.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5-284_Norma
 
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Yes. 6.5-284 is all one thing. Norma came up with it by necking down the .284 Winchester parent cartridge case for 6.5 mm bullets. Norma calls it 6.5-284 Norma because they came up with it, but most shooters just call it 6.5-284 anymore.
 
Thanks for your replies. I have some Norma and Lapua brass in 6.5 x 284 and they seem a little wide at the base for the Forster FL resize. I got a Redding neck sizer on the way to get around that problem.
 
6.5-.284 Norma

"Yes. 6.5-284 is all one thing."

Sorry but NOT TRUE...


"Norma came up with it by necking down the .284 Winchester parent cartridge case for 6.5 mm bullets."

Again, NOT TRUE...

The 6.5-.284 existed LONG BEFORE Norma submitted it to CIP (European equivalent to our SAAMI) in 2000...

The 6.5-.284 existed as a WILDCAT as early as 1966 LONG BEFORE 2000...


"Norma calls it 6.5-284 Norma because they came up with it..."

Again, NOT TRUE...

The "Norma" version is DIFFERENT from the wildcat versions...

Not sure of the differences, think the Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) is the main changes that TURNS the .6.5-.284 INTO A DIFFERENT CARTRIDGE called the "6.5-284 Norma".

May be other changes such as shoulder angle and shoulder location that may or may not make these cartridges "2 way interchangeable" and even dangerous to substitute...


"...but most shooters just call it 6.5-284 anymore."

This is true BUT...

Just because "most" or even "everyone" is wrong, does NOT make ANY OF THEM CORRECT...

This would be like considering and calling all 7mm magnums the same...

BIG DIFFERENCE between a 7mm Rem Mag vs. a 7mm Wby Mag...

T.
 
Tim: I have seen the chamber blue prints for a 6.5 x 284 wildcat and for the 6.5 x 284 Norma. They are indeed different. The smith that cut the chamber in my rifle had those blueprints and confirmed some differences. I suppose any new commercial die is 6.5 x 284 Norma, at least I hope so. :eek:
 
I should have more carefully said Norma was the first company to commercialize it and produce a factory formed case rather than rely on converted 284 Win cases, and to produce commercially loaded cartridges. AFAIK, that is correct. When NECO began to import the Norma brass into the U.S., originally, I got 500 of them. They are a little low on case capacity in that run, as compared to current, but I've been satisfied with the performance I get from them (still have some), and don't feel a need to have any more powder to help burn the barrels out any faster.

That the cartridge was originally a wildcat that a number of folks made on their own, is a history shared with a good number of other cartridges that are now commercially available.

Tim's post is a good reminder that not all the rifles made for the wildcat versions are necessarily identically chambered. Wildcats usually go through phases before they become standardized commercial products, so you may see small differences in neck wall thicknesses or trim lengths that are intended for some of the early wildcat chambers. Perhaps even a little in headspace. Lots of folks order a reamer, but get a different freebore or throat length or neck diameter.

Once a wildcat becomes popular enough, before a major ammunition maker commercializes it they often go through a period where dies are made by the reloading equipment companies both for forming them from the parent case and for loading and reloading them, and these can vary a little depending whose set of drawings they were based on. Still, when you look at the SAAMI drawing for the .284 Winchester and the CIP drawing for the 6.5-284 Norma, the only difference, measuring from the head, is the Norma version is about 0.004" shorter at the shoulder intersect than the .284 Win. But all the case body diameters match, and I would expect that to have remained constant throughout the different versions. So it shouldn't matter much whose die you have as far as body diameters go, unless the die wasn't made correctly or unless your chamber is too wide.
 
6.5-284

"But all the case body diameters match..."

True most of the time but like the differences between the .223 Rem, .223 Wylde, 5.56X45mm and other versions, the differences may not be just in the case dimensions...

Much of the differences are in the way the area in front of the case itself is cut...


"...and I would expect that to have remained constant throughout the different versions. So it shouldn't matter much whose die you have as far as body diameters go, unless the die wasn't made correctly or unless your chamber is too wide."

Unfortunately this is not a safe assumption...

As an example, there are at least 3 different versions of the .338-06 each with different shoulder angles and placements.

Problem is, none of these are the same as the factory standardized version!


The .257 Roberts is another good example of this...

From first release to factory standardization, cartridge length, body taper, shoulder angle AND placement plus rifling twist was changed repeatedly...


The actual brand of dies should not matter but...

Unless you are neck sizing only, I would be sure to buy dies for the EXACT version you have.

If barrel is stamped 6.5-284 Norma, I would buy die (of whichever brand you want) that are marked 6.5-284 Norma...

T.
 
I had a standing order for 284 cases, for years. Then I gave up, I had a barrel and dies, then I found cases, the cases were R-P 6.5/284. And then it was one of those 'snuck up on someone' moments. I found R/P 284 cases. It was about that time I lost interest, The 6.5mm 284 dies were purchased from a reloader that was misinformed and ill advise. He ground the bottom of the die, lucky? The bubba set of dies was purchased by the only reloader that knows what to do with a die that requires adjusting. I could have the only set of 6.5mm/284 dies that will size a case for any length chamber.

F. Guffey
 
Then there could be a difference in the length of the neck, there could be a difference in the length of the case body from the shoulder case body juncture to the case head. That would not be a problem for a reloader because a reloader can compare with a comparator unless they have head space gages for measuring cases.

F. Guffey
 
Coppershot,

While I still expect the dies to be intended to work for reasons of manufacturer mind set, and since nobody seems to have mentioned hearing of a version or wildcat called 6.5-284 Win, I'm guessing it's just an error in die labeling. The best route is going to be to call Forster and ask if they built it for case dimensions that match the CIP dimensions for 6.5-284. When you said they seemed a little wide at the base, what sort of before and after sizing difference were you seeing?


TimW77,

Other than chambers, is there any particular differences in .223 Rem and 5.56×45 you had in mind?
 
"TimW77,
Other than chambers, is there any particular differences in .223 Rem and 5.56×45 you had in mind?"

There are or could be other differences such as barrel twist rate, operating pressures, etc. but in this case I was talking about the chamber area just in front of the case itself...


"...and since nobody seems to have mentioned hearing of a version or wildcat called 6.5-284 Win..."

Don't know if there are wildcats called both 6.5-284 and 6.5-284 Win since ALL of them are based on the .284 Win case (cartridge name not Win brand cases)...


"...I'm guessing it's just an error in die labeling. The best route is going to be to call Forster and ask if they built it for case dimensions that match the CIP dimensions for 6.5-284."

Agreed best not to guess, as you said contact your favorite die maker and ask them, all are glad to help...

Don't think there is a "CIP dimension" for a 6.5-284, "CIP" does have the 6.5-284 NORMA...

T.
 
Mr. Guffey solved it. There really was a 6.5-284 Winchester. I get to learn something new every day.

The image of the 6.5-284 Norma at Steve's is from an article that has 0.5 inch base diameter and the case length right, but all the other dimensions are wrong as compared to the CIP drawing. Either wrong conversions from millimeters or Norma hadn't finished making its mind up yet.

If the 6.5-284 Winchester drawing is correct, it works out to be about 0.001" longer at the shoulder than the CIP drawing gives for 6.5-284 Norma, but that's the only difference from correctly converted CIP numbers that is bigger than 0.0002". And 0.0002" is small enough to be ignored. So if the OP's die is for a case that matches the dimensions at Steve's, then there is no practical difference between the two and the die should work for both.

But here, again, checking with the maker is the best way to be sure. Who knows. There could be some different drawing of the 6.5-284 Winchester that they worked from.
 
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