Cops find themselves in arms race with criminals

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Frontier509

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http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/05/cops.guns/index.html

WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (CNN) -- The war on the streets is escalating. As gangs and other criminals pack more firepower, police departments say they find themselves in an arms race.


Sgt. Laurie Pfeil practices shooting a semiautomatic weapon in Palm Beach County, Florida.

1 of 3 The officers say they need to level the playing field to survive. And so, on a bright October day about a dozen Palm Beach County sheriff's deputies brought out their big guns at the local firing range.

Rifles crackled. Shell casings flew. Bullets sailed at 3,200 feet per second through paper targets set up a football field's length away.

The sharpshooters weren't training for a SWAT team. These were the deputies who patrol the streets and roads from the glittery Gold Coast to the swamps of the Everglades. Watch cops practice firing the big guns »

The fatal shooting in September of a Miami-Dade police officer by a man using an assault weapon put all South Florida police departments on edge. Several other officers were wounded by the gunfire.

"It's not nice we have to arm ourselves like the soldiers in Iraq," said Sgt. Laurie Pfeil, who supervises a sheriff's road patrol in Palm Beach County and is now certified to carry a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle on the job. It's the civilian version of the military's M-16 used by U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

"We are like soldiers. It is a war, " says Sgt Pfeil.

Across the country, at least 62 police officers have been gunned down this year -- a record pace, said Robert Tessaro, the associate director for law enforcement relations for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

As a result, the Brady organization supports police officers arming themselves with high-powered weapons "to protect themselves and their communities," he said.

"We're having more than one officer shot and killed a week. It's just outrageous that officers are being targeted," he said. "It's something I think all Americans should be outraged about."

He lays the blame squarely on lawmakers who allowed the assault weapons ban to expire in 2004.

Designed to be fired from the hip, assault rifles such as the AK-47 can spray at a rate of up to 600 rounds a minute in full automatic mode. It is the weapon of choice for guerillas and gangsters.

Cops prefer to squeeze off single shots in semiautomatic mode because it makes for more accurate shooting. Some semiautomatic weapon's can fire with pinpoint accuracy from as far as 100 yards away. The magazines used by law enforcement typically carry 20 or 30 rounds, adding to the ability to better respond under fire.

There's no doubt that urban street warfare, aided by a proliferation of cheap automatic weapons, has come even to Palm Beach County, once high society's vacation mecca and a retirement destination for northern snowbirds.

Assault weapons have been used to kill eight people and wound 25 here over the last two years. Authorities estimate there are about 160 gangs who boast around 7000 members.

"They don't have .38s anymore. They have AK-47s. ...They have automatic weapons now," said Sgt. Pfeil.

So the Palm Beach Sheriff's office, like many others across the county, is training and arming everyone on the force with semiautomatic assault weapons. Many officers say it's about time.

"It's different now. It's shootings on a weekly basis. Ten years ago, that just didn't happen," said Pfeil. "They don't get out and run from us anymore. They stop, and they're shooting at us."

Miami's police department also is in the process of arming every officer with an assault rifle.

"It's a little bit embarrassing that we're engaged in this, but what is the alternative?" said Miami police Chief John Timoney. He said gangs, in particular, are getting their hands on high-powered weapons with apparent ease.

"The streets of South Florida are being flooded by AK-47s and assault weapons from old Soviet bloc countries. It's driven the price down, making the availability greater," said Chief Timoney.

The Miami police department evidence room has seized AK-47s, AR-15s and an assortment of other automatic and semiautomatic weapons piled on shelves from floor to ceiling.

Chief Timoney says he started noticing an increase since the federal assault weapon ban lapsed in 2004. Since then, he says homicides in the city of Miami involving assault weapons have been up -- 18 percent last year and 20 percent this year.

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons, up from the year before. So far this year, 12 of 60 killings have involved the high-powered arms.

Tessaro said he recently attended a conference for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. Among the crime scene tape, squad cars, and other law enforcement gear offered for sale was the latest in high-powered assault weapons.

But it takes time and money to arm everyone. In the case of Palm Beach Sheriff's office, about one-third of its deputies carry assault weapons. It could take a year to get everyone equipped.

Some officers aren't waiting.


Palm Beach Sheriff's deputy Carl Martin bought his own AR-15 and passed the required training.

When his department offered him one of their weapons, he gave it up to someone else who was on the waiting list. "Because there's not enough to go around," he explained
 
I won't waste my time debating the "facts".

I'll just say there has always been an arms race between LE and the bad guys. At any time the cop on the street has been out gunned. Problem goes back as far as Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger, and other notables. What differs now is the police evidently seek the approval of Brady and CNN before upping its firepower. Hint to LE: just shut up and do it.
 
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It's interesting that it states 62 officers were killed
and assault weapons were involved in 15 homicides
yet "8 people were killed by assualt weapons"
 
Designed to be fired from the hip
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Um... what? :barf: And I'm also wondering how many of these AKs are just semi automatic and not full auto as the article implies.
Chief Timoney says he started noticing an increase since the federal assault weapon ban lapsed in 2004. Since then, he says homicides in the city of Miami involving assault weapons have been up -- 18 percent last year and 20 percent this year.
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Correlation does not prove causation. Besides, does anyone really think gangsters will obey "assault weapons" bans?
 
Only change is attitude...

20 plus years ago, Miami/Dade Co. were widely known as the illegal machine gun capitol of the US. A few hundred dollars and a few hours spend on the street would get you an (illegal) automatic weapon, if you were so inclined.

The only thing that appears to have actually changed is the attitude that shooting cops is really no different that shooting anyone else. Or at least that is what it sounds like. Perhaps if gang members actually had some reason to fear the results of shooting police officers (or anyone else for that matter) things might change.

I did see one fact in the story posted, the fact was that Miami was in south Florida. Other than that, it is all unsupported allegation and the usual anti-gun rhetoric.

62 officers across the country gunned down this year. Tragic, but relevant? Not without additional information specifically linking it to the story as published. How many of those poor officers were "gunned down" by assault weapons? (by proper definition), and how many by assault weapons? (by media definition), how many by shotguns? How many by their own pistols?

And why not compare the number "gunned down" to the number "run down" by cars, or killed in traffic accidents? One is just as much an occupational hazard as the other. Making a living as a LEO (particularly in metro areas) is not a safe occupation. The "arms race" between cops and crooks is neither new nor necessary. Cops have access to any thing made, just as criminals do. The difference is the political master of our police, in their never ending quest to present the "proper" image restrict what the cops carry and have access to. If you look at the old pictures (or if you happen to actually be old enough to remember), back when the cops all carried .38 Special revolvers, they had Tommyguns and BARs and other rifles and shotguns as back up, whenever they felt the need.

Cops have never been "outgunned" by their choice, they have been outgunned because of the choices made by administrators whose asses are not on the line on the street. Back when the cops carried ammo in belt carriers where it could be seen by the public, they were forbidden to carry/use hollowpoints! Because administrators were afraid of upsetting the public. Today, with ammo in pouches, and in pistol magaiznes, JHP are regularly used. Sad, but to the people who decide what equipment officers have to rely on, reality takes a backseat to perception, virtually every time.
 
A look at the truth shows this to be a lie. To date, there have been 156 police officers killed in the line of duty, according to the “Officer Down Memorial.”

Of those 156 officers, 72 (46%) were killed in vehicle accidents, 5 fell due to bombs (three of them were Federal Officers killed by a bomb in Iraq), 3 drowned, 7 through medical causes, one was killed by a tornado, one by a toxic exposure, one from a yellow jacket sting, and one when a pine tree fell on his car after the tree was struck by lightning.

Of the 62 (40%) officers killed by gunfire, 9 (7%) were killed by rifles, 37 (24%) by handguns or shotguns, and in 15 (10%) of the shootings, the type of weapon was not identified in the report, only being listed as “gun, unknown.”

Two of those killed by rifles were mistakenly shot by other police officers, three were shot by “hunting rifles,” one by an M1 Garand (which was not listed as an assault weapon by the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban), and the others were listed as simply “Rifle.” Only one mention of an “Assault weapon” as a cause of death. The only cop killed by an assault weapon was the Miami- Dade officer killed September 13th. That is right, as tragic as it is, this was the only case of a cop being killed with an "assault weapon" wielded by a criminal this year. In other words, cops with "assault weapons" killed more cops than criminals with "assault weapons."

Four officers were shot with their own or another officer’s weapon that had been taken from the officer by the suspect. The Broward Deputy killed today was killed when his service pistol was taken from him by a prisoner he was transporting.

In short, more cops were killed by (take your pick) cars, bombs, water, tornados, lightning, pine trees, other cops, or yellow jackets, than were killed by “Assault Weapons.” But then, none of those causes fit the press’ leftist, antigun agenda, do they?
 
Thank you for those figures!

That is the kind of reporting that we need to see more of. Of course, the press, having their own agenda, only report to us those figures that fit their viewpoint the best. I would have expected a higher number killed by their own/brother officers pistols, as this has been, historically the largest single category for shootings. On the other hand, perhaps it is the "killed" filter that is pushing the numbers down, as with greater use of vests, and modern medical care, the number of "killed" has been reduced. This is a good thing, but could be turned into a misleading statistic, in the "wrong" hands.

You can make a case for anything using statistics, all you have to do is set your parameters where they will do you the most good to support your argument!

Virtually 100% of criminals have been found to have eaten some kind of bread product within the 30 days preceding their committing a crime! Therefore, Bread causes Crime! Ban Bread!

100% of criminals have been found to breath oxygen during the commission of crimes! Ban breathing? or ban oxygen? Why not just ban idiocy and be done with it? 'Cause it don't work, that's why!

Thank you for the background numbers on fallen officers, it was educational.
 
dive medic, where did you get the statistics? Did you compile them yourself, or did you read them somewhere? A link would be great.

(I've been discussing this on another forum.)
 
Chief Timoney says he started noticing an increase since the federal assault weapon ban lapsed in 2004
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Ok I’m a little fuzzy on how the assault weapon ban is going to affect the proliferation of machine guns among gang members. Could someone point me to the info or documentation that explains this? I can be a little slow on some things.
 
Yeah, just like in the era of prohibition. Either legalize the drugs and make a buck off the taxes, or fight a losing way at a huge cost to us taxpayers. Sure legalization would have a cost in lives, but you make your choices and live or die by the consequences.
 
I tend to think that police chiefs (cops who forget they were cops when they become politicians) have been making this crap up since Bonnie and Clyde illegally got hold of a couple of BARs...and 99.9% of criminals were still using cheap break-top revolvers.

Not much has changed, really.
 
of course weapon ban is the answer every law abiding criminal will be happy to lay down their assault type weapon.:barf:
 
That's the thing, there ARE NO ASSAULT WEAPONS.

That's a bit of false leftist crap that's stuck, even among the gun community.

An assault weapon is a full-auto AK. A German STG-44. An M-4 with "da switch".

A semi-automatic rifle is not an assault weapon, even if it has the same overall lines...that's just cosmetic!
 
What differs now is the police evidently seek the approval of Brady and CNN before upping its firepower. Hint to LE: just shut up and do it.
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It was no different in the 20s and 30s. The police had to go through public and political support to get approval for first the Thompson and then the BAR.

Less changes than people think. It wasn't easy to get police the Ar15 in the 80s and took public opinion changing to have rifles issued.

Everytime oneside up the firepower, the otherside will eventually catchup. Then you get siturations like in Mexico were the criminals have started fielding M60s and Bazookas. I think it will eventually get that way here too.
 
It wasn't easy to get police the Ar15 in the 80s and took public opinion changing to have rifles issued.
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Considering how little most cops practice, and considering the cockiness and lack of basic gun safety I see among cops at ranges, I'm not sure it really is such a good idea.

Those cops in NYC that fired 50 shots at the unarmed guys in the car...29 shots went on to hit houses and a train station beyond. They had absolutely no regard for their backstop. At all.

Not sure I want that sort having ARs.
 
^ That's what we get when they hire people who've never been raised in a firearms/outdoors household. Where the hell do they keep finding these people? Where I grew up, it was a dad's responsibility to make sure every boy and most girls were adept with a rifle and shotgun.
 
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