Copper won't come out

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Wendyj

New member
This is a 7 mm magnum barrel. It only shoots Nosler and Sierra Game king , and an occasional Hornady sst bullets. I spent over 4 hours cleaning last night and have used Hoppes#9. Castroil copper cleaner. Butch's Bore shine. Breakfree CLP. Caseys Gunscrubber to get all the cleaners out and lastly Ballistol..

I ran patches of all cleaners through the bore and let set for 15-20 minutes with exception of the castroil. Ran a new wet patch and let set another 15 minutes. Went to town 20-30 strokes of a Nylon brush. went back with a bronze brush. Threw bronze brush away as it appeared to make things worse. Patches came out black but no signs of copper as in blue or green as everything indicated. Put undersized brush on and ran patch over brush. I cleaned until I was wore out with it. Rifle has went from .333 groups to one inch to one and 3/4 inch groups. Older Remington ADL have had around 20 years. I had always used just Hoppes#9 and a thorough cleaning until we started reloading and putting a lot of rounds down range with it. Am I leaving cleaners in long enough or is there anther cleaner that is better than what I'm using or am I doing this wrong? I haven't shot since the severe cleaning last night but I still see what appears to be copper. I always put it away with a little ballistol or Remington oil when not going to the range for awhile. When I had the trigger job done on it the gunsmith ran a bore scope down and said it wasn't pitted but I needed to use Butch's bore shine to clean the copper out. That cleaner works on my 45 hand gun but isn't fazing this one. I'm open to any suggestions. Looked jor JB paste but not available in stores here. I definitely don't want to ruin the barrel. Probably has 500 rounds down the bore and 400 of those from last year at the bench. It has been my husbands hunting rifle since he bought it.
 

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In extreme cases, the Outers electronic cleaner with the rod that sits in a bore full of cleaner has worked for me. It's messy and expensive but effective.
IIRC that may be one of the SS barrels and the copper may be "cooked" into the pores of the metal. Some bores just never "come clean" and attempting to get them white patch clean is wasted effort as often they will require "re-fouling" before settling down to shoot good groups.
These are just my observations and not based on scientific research.
 
Was using brass but switched over to nylon brush and plastic jag. Will have to get back to the range and it usually takes 10-20 rounds for barrel to start settling back in. Picture is not best but copper appears to not be in the grooves now but raised portion of rifling. The Butchs bore shine seems to clean all powder residue out best and leaves patches good and clean but can't get the streaks out. Don't think it's ready for a new barrel yet. Been keeping velocity of 140-160 grain bullets around 2900 fps. Until we started reloading a few rounds shot for zero and 3-4 deer or a hog or two was all that went down the bore. Hoppes always took the barrel back clean but it's went from 20 rounds a year to 50 rounds a month this year and a few more doing some powder and ladder tests.
 
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First, pre-treat with Accelerator and then give the barrel a fill with Wipe Out foam and let sit over nite, then brush.

Or get Montana Extreme.

"Patches came out black but no signs of copper as in blue or green as everything indicated." This indicates that you are not treating the copper.

The Wipe Out foam is excellent for copper removal, but not much else.

Even if the barrel is pitted as stated by your smith, I would not use an abrasive bore cleaner.
 
1. Get this: KG-12
2. Slop a wet patch in; Sit for 5-10-ish minutes; Dry patch all the brown crud out.
3. Repeat 1-2x more in REEALY tough-nut cases. (No extensive scrubbing, just thoroughly dry patch it out after slopping it in/sitting)

Don't believe me ??
2e4gg12.jpg


I'll buy it back from you (and I'll pay postage) if it doesn't work. ;) :D
 
If you can't find the KG12, look for Boretech Eliminator. It works great, but don't use brass jags or fittings (like I did at first).

You may find that some of your rifles shoot better with a little copper in the barrel.
 
the best I have seen and I tried it all is foaming bore cleaner. no brushes to gouge the barrel. fill it with foam for an hour or two and green paint will come out with a couple of patches. used it on a bunch of old surplus rifles my friends were impressed
 
Patches of all cleaners probably doesn't put enough solvent in the barrel. Stop up the muzzle with a rubber cork and fill the barrel with solvent and leave it for a couple hours. Then clean as per normal.
No brush will ever gouge the barrel.
 
I have found ammonia based copper solvents work best on bad fouling. Something like Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR 10

Wet patch, let it soak for a few minutes, then run a dry patch, it will come out green. And yet, it will eat a bronze brush.
 
When I got and used the Boretech product, it was so much better than Sweets that I threw the Sweets away. No comparison. Ammonia based is old technology.

The Boretech (and KG12) will get out the copper that the others didn't. And don't even bother with Hoppes unless you just like the smell.

That said, I don't always want to take out all the copper. I'll use Butch's boreshine to clean out the carbon, and if that doesn't give me back the accuracy, then I'll remove the copper. Depends on the gun. The 220 will lay down copper (old high dollar barrel) but the 260 won't (new high dollar barrel).
 
A 7 mm Rem certainly can copper foul and lose some accuracy.
I have experienced high intensity/tight twist barrels that would go about 40 rounds before they started to degrade.

At the same time,you can do more to wear out a barrel cleaning it than shooting it.

Read the fine print of the instructions with every product you use.There are always people who express an adamant opinion (here) that give wrong information. Example? It has been years since I used Sweets.If you read the fine print,Sweets (IIRC) says "Do not leave the solvent in the bore for more than 15 minutes or it will etch the bore"
So to anyone who tells you to plug the bore,fill it with solvent,and soak it overnight..."Gee,thanks,buddy!".Maybe,with some products.Bad idea with others.(I know a gunsmith who had to send aS+W 29 nickel plated cylinder to S+W for a refinish.Why? He soaked it over night in Hoppes!! Ate the nickel)

IIRC,it was a Tetra product that cautions against combining their solvent with any other.There are different chemical technologies used in these products.Mixing them can create a compound or reaction that can hurt your bore.

You will get varying opinions,but I would guess the premium barrel makers would not recommend you use abrasive products like JB in their barrels.
I have used some JB,long ago,on a couple of badly fouled barrels.It did speed the copper removal.I won't say JB is ineffective.But,IMO,it is not a procedure I am comfortable using.I won't recommend it to you.

I'd suggest trying Bore Tec Eliminator,Wipe Out,KG12,and maybe Tetra.

But don't mix.

The Montana black bore brushes seem pretty good.

I suggest you use a bore guide .

Good luck!

This link will take you to a reference page at Scheumann Barrels.It has information about cleaning barrels written by Jim Borden of Precision Shooting Magazine.
I highly recommend it.You might also read the article on barrel steels,found by going to the home page,then to "documentation".
You will find the automotive spray chlorinated hydrocarbons to be a bad idea in a bore.

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf
 
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KG12 isn't as good as advertised, I've taken that route to no satisfaction, the Bore Tech Eliminator has always worked better for me.
The KG12 laboratory employees say there is no Ammonia in their product, I think their high. I sent my bottle back at my expense BTW, only to have them send me the very same bottle back and still claim no Ammonia in their product....I won't use their product any longer, the Bore Tech is a safer, less smelly, faster acting product than 12.
 
For the OP, if you ever do get the barrel squeaky clean, there is a product available that is some sort of a ceramic filler in a liquid carrier that you coat the barrel with and fire a few rounds to set. I can't remember the name but I bet someone will post it. I think I got it from Brownells.
 
The best stuff I ever found was RB-17. I bought a bottle well over a decade ago, and still have most of it left. Its a gel, non-toxic, and doesn't even smell bad. NO scrubbing, just coat the bore, let sit 10-15minutes, a couple passes with a brush, and then literally EVERYTHING comes out.

The down side is that I don't know if they still make it. Last time I checked, they did, but no local shops stocked it (is spendy) and the maker wasn't interested in selling less than case lots.

Look and see if its still on the market, and if so, get some and try it. I think you'll be amazed.

As to the accuracy loss in your 7mm Mag, do consider it might NOT be copper fouling. Simple bore erosion from use (normal wear when firing large charges of powder down "small" bores) could very well be the cause.

After a few hundred rounds, or a thousand, its normal for the "guilt edge" accuracy to go away. Barrels don't last forever, and less in high intensity cartridges. 3-5000 rounds maintaining big game accuracy is pretty good for a big magnum. About usual for smaller rounds. Sub MOA accuracy usually "wears out" long before that.

Good luck, and I do hope its just copper fouling, but be prepared if its not. Eventually, a new barrel might be the only cure.
 
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