Copper fouling?

D

Dave R

New member
Cleaned my Rem 700 last night. Used Shooter's Choice as solvent. Bore looked nice & shiney, until I held a flashlight at an oblique angle to the muzzle and spotted copper-colored streaks on lands & grooves.

Cleaned it again, this time with Butch's bore shine. Still had the copper colored streaks.

Cleaned it again with Shooters Choice. Even more scrubbing.

Still have the copper streaks.

Is this normal or do I have a bad case of copper fouling? If so, what's the best way to remove it?
 
I think this is pretty normal with a factory tube. A little copper is no problem, as long as the accuracy stays up. Some rifles like a little copper in the bore...

If you must get it out, soaks with Butch's, a good brushing with bench-grade bore brush, Sweet's 7.62 (don't leave in the bore more than 10 minutes! Neutralize with a couple patches wet with rubbing alcohol.), JB/Remclean or any other mild non-imbedding abrasive - be sure and wetpatch all traces out before shooting... Or :barf:

Best you let the rifle tell you what it needs, tho. Just wet patch and dry every so often to keep from having a hard carbon build-up, and clean the copper when the accuracy drops off...:D
Hope this helps,
Tom
 
Copper fouling wasn't a problem until...

It got fashionable, and lucretive, to have sparkeling mirror-like bores.
I shoot quite often in close proximity to a guy who swabs out his rifle bores with mounds of solvent soaked patches at the ends of very expensive coated ramrods with the rifle clamped into a special holding vise. He does this every few rounds...very impressive ritual. But as near as I can tell, that's all it is, a ritual...chanting would be cheaper, and as effective:rolleyes:
His targets don't show any improvement over others who shoot the same calibers from the same type rifles, but with 'fouled' bores. As my belief is that targets don't lie, I suspect a swindle:eek:
 
About four years ago I noticed my two favorite pets dropping off in group size. I ran across an article talking about these (then) new copper-removing solvents and the effect of their use.

So, got some; followed directions. I then got two of the tightest groups either rifle had ever shot.

Of course, it took decades for the problem to develop, and well over 1,000 rounds through each one. :)

Art
 
Art, what were these (then new) solvents?

Thanks for the responses. I shot it today at the informal range, using a nice rest. 2nd group, 3 out of 4 holes touching at 130 yards. I'll stop worrying, and just follow a normal cleaning regimen, until it gets a little worse.
 
Same situation when I got my first Rem700. I first cleaned the factory fouled barrel with Hoppes Bench Rest 9 with some patches followed by brush and more wet patches. Let the barrel soak for a day or so. This got the majority out. Then used Sweets and the all traces of copper were gone. Nice shiny barrel to begin the break-in process with.

BTW, the use of Sweets in combination with Shooter's Choice is supposedly not a good idea.
 
I guess when the insides of my barrel are golden instead of black, I'll start worrying about it.

I clean with Hoppes #9, I guess that pulls out some copper, I dunno. Don't give it much thought, really..
 
Dave do you reload or know someone that does? If so try the David Tubb's Final Finish process and you'll probably have to do alot less cleaning. Read my review article at www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/DavidTubbsFinalFinish.htm This process works wonders on the factory Remington barrel which isn't known for being to smooth.

As for cleaning I use both Butch's and Shooter's Choice but when I want to get the copper out quick I use the Shooter's Choice Copper remover which works much faster than the basic Shooter' Choice. Sweet's 7.62 also works great.
 
Dave, the new-to-me stuff is Hoppe's BenchRest 9.

For years, I've just taken a GI patch, or part of one, and sprayed it lightly with WD 40. I run it through the barrel once or twice, and follow with a somewhat loose-fit dry patch. This is mostly for the guns I shoot regularly.

For guns which live more in the safe than in the field, I run a patch through with just a bit of gun oil...

The BenchRest 9 seems to be Good Stuff.

Art
 
Every bore is a little different

I inherited a rifle that was claimed to be "shot out". The bore was dark and sure enough, 10" groups were the best it could throw at 100 yards.


The rifle had been "cleaned" with "gun oil" only and was 40-50 years old. My first attempts of cleaning after the disappointing range session confirmed suspicions. The bore was very dirty. A week of cleaning with Hoppes removed the black stuff easily but patches were still dark green. Time to call out the strong stuff and use some JB bore compound.

Patches were black again. Another week's worth of cleaning got me to that "clean patch" with Hoppes. The next time at the range rewarded me with a tidy sub-MOA group. Cleaning the rifle after 20 rounds showed the dreaded green patch of copper fouling which eventually cleared up. After a few years, I grew lazy and only cleaned when accuracy showed it necessary but never to the point of a white patch. The rifle will shoot with a clean bore but its still performs with a slightly copper fouled bore.

Lesson here? Copper can be a detractor of accuracy but don't get obsessed with getting out every last trace of fouling.
 
Benchresters won't do something if it won't work, or if it causes bad accuracy.

We clean a LOT.

With heavy copper removers. Sure, our idea of bad accuracy is still well within most of y'all's acceptable parameters, but then we're not worried about "minute of Bambi." We're trying to hit within a dime EVERY TIME.
 
Bogie, y'all are in a whole 'nother world. I have nothing but respect for the accomplishments of the benchrest gang!

Art
 
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