Copper fouling Savage 12 LRP

R

ronl

New member
I bought a Savage 12 LRP about two months ago and after the initial trial noted a huge amount of copper fouling in the barrel. Much work with many products failed to remove it. Looking in the barrel I noted rather severe machining marks on both the lands and grooves of the bore. Took it to a few very wise friends of mine who advised me to send it back, so I did. It has been almost a month, and I called them today just to see what happened to the rifle. Seems they sent it out for accuracy testing without anything more than examination of the bore with a borescope. Ironically it must have passed the borescope test even though you could see the machining marks with the naked eye. Rather disappointed, as I was looking forward to the 6.5CM, but I guess I'' have to wait. I certainly hope Savage makes it good, as I've seen AK barrels finished far better than this one was.
 
Close to 20 years back, I bought a Savage .308 with a long heavy contour barrel for my Daughter. I found it only moderately accurate and a fouling son of a gun. It took about 200-250 shots with MANY cleanings to get the bore smoothed out. That one probably should have been hand lapped and your's may be another candidate for lapping.
 
Savage barrels are button bored so they look rough. I have a Shilen that I believe that is is button bored but hand lapped. It has the same "tool marks" that you are describing but it has shot sub MOA out to 600 yards.
All that being said, what you are describing is more or less normal for a button bored barrel.
 
Button rifling is rough. Savage barrels are almost impossible to get all the Cu out of. Most shoot best with Cu in the barrel, so why try to get it all out? If you want to get it out (not really sure why you would) run a patch soaked with Kano oil down the barrel and let it set for 24 hours, repeat, repeat, repeat, then clean the kano oil out with non chlorinated brake cleaner, then use Montana extreme Cu remover, and you will have every bit of Cu out of your barrel. Having extensive experience with savages, I can guarantee you it will not shoot as good perfectly clean as it does 20 rounds fouled.
 
use Rel. 15 or CFE 223 powder or Ramshot Tac powder and I think there are others. they leave no copper residue in fact CFE powder has been shown to clean the copper out of a barrel. foaming bore cleaner will get the copper out
 
Fouling

Have a Savage 16 in 260, and as others have stated, Savage buttons the rifling. After firing the first 10 shots, I used JB Bore Paste, then JB Bore Bright. I don't shoot full copper slugs, but the fouling I do get now easily comes out. Also, I've been using CFE223 in my 6.5 Grendel and it's amazing. I'm getting .3" groups with 123 Hornadys and three patch cleanup.
 
Savage has a very rough barrel. As noted, its not hand lapped.

What you need is Bore Tech eliminator. That will get the cooper out.

What are you shooting bullet wise? Caliber and speed?

AK barrels are chromed (or some are, ???) . Whole different thing.

AK barrels may be smooth but they sure are not accurate!
 
Finally heard from Savage. The rifle didn't shoot well at their range so they're going to re-barrel it. Bad thing is that I will have to wait at least another 3 weeks to get it back. Oh well, they say patience is a virtue.
 
Bet it shoots lights out when you get it back.
I haven't noticed my 12 LRP to have especially heavy copper fouling, then again I never remove it all when cleaning.
 
I hope it does. I thought perhaps the initial poor grouping @100 was just me getting used to the 8oz. trigger pull, but their findings back up what I experienced. A little validation is a good thing. I am hoping to get a really fine barrel this time. Honestly, I had been seriously considering a 6.5 rifle for a little over a year and couldn't decide between .260 and the Creedmore. When I found a good deal on this particular rifle, it made my mind up for me. I'll just have to wait a little longer. Have some H4350, RL-17, and Hybrid 100 and a few boxes of Hornady 140 ELD's to play with. I am really looking forward to dialing this thing in. I'll get to see how it stacks up against a RPR that my friend has, but he is a much better shooter than I am, so it won't be exactly fair, but it will be fun.
 
Same fouling here with my 12BVSS in 223. I have not fired it in several years. I keep it around thinking I might get around to a match barrel install one of these days.
 
Was the rifle shooting accurately prior to the cooper fouling? Cooper will kill the accuracy. I usually do a good cleaning when I notice the accuracy starting to drop off.
 
What you need is 150 in tools and a spare barrel of two or three and then you are never without a gun!

As noted, there will be some copper.

Bore Tech eliminator gets out bad copper and carbon.

Carbon killer 2000 for carbon only.

I use the Bore Tech at first, then once it stable the Carbon Killer.

Modern chemical with no odder, not hazardous and focus on the issue rather than brute force that melts steel is the way to go.
 
Interesting thought just snuck up on me. Now I'm wishing I had a barrel that was bad to copper foul, I'd like to do a bit of testing with hbn on it.
 
I remember reading about smoothing out rifling with a set of loaded ammunition where the bullets had a lapping compound with different grades of compound, after shooting 5 each with heavy, medium & fine, you were done. One of my range friends has the LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor,, groups one ragged hole at 200 yards. Very accurate rifle, never complained of copper fouling, but I think he cleans after every 5 rounds. I will ask him the next time I see him.
 
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"Savage barrels are button bored..." How do you "button bore" a rifle barrel? Did you mean to say, "button rifled"? Ask'en for a friend.
 
Bought a Savage Axis rifle when it was called the Edge. Began shooting it from bench rest. When squeezing its heavy trigger pull, noted that my cross hair would climb on my target bullseye up to 1/2" before trigger released. Eventually, figured out between its heavy pull and the flex that resulted from it in the stock at its wrist was the cause. Wasn't my rest or shooting technique, two other gents at range will try my rifle from their rests and note the same upward movement on their target.

Mentioned this on a gun forum and a reader of my post PM'd me about having the same problem with his Edge/Axis.....that he'd returned his rifle to Savage to check out the problem.

When he got the rifle back from Savage, there was a note in the box and a target. Note basically said, target group shot with the rifle was within their standards for accuracy. No mention in the note about his complaint of stock flex problem, the sole reason he sent in the rifle.
 
Talked to Savage this week. Sounds as though they had to make a new barrel for the rifle. The barrel is to be fluted, installed, then tested for accuracy. At the rate they're going, I might get it back in a month.
 
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