Coonan 1911 .357 Magnum. ???

G

Gaz_in_NZ

New member
Hi all,
There is a .357Mag Semi-Auto come up for sale that I have never heard of or know anything about, It's a Coonan 1911 that takes standard rimmed .357 Mag ammo.
I thought that it was only the Desert Eagle that took std .357 Mag revolver ammo.
Seeing as it is quite a drive away for me to even look at it and I've never heard of one : -
what are they like?
are they any good?
is one worth considering?
are they reliable?
Would it be better to consider a DE .357 instead of this?
Is it as fussy on ammo as the DE is?
Would it take Home Loads with little or no problem?

Thanks in advance
Cheers
Gaz
 
Don't own one. Revolvers do it for me in that caliber. However, I have read up on the Coonan a few times years ago. Apparently it's very well made, fit and finished to a high standard. They are expensive, as you would expect. I have no idea how it might function or not with the ammo produced today. Google is your friend.
 
Cheers for the replies.

I only have 2 out of 8 handguns that are semi-auto, and they are both .22, I prefer revolvers and am also looking for a .44Mag at present without any success.

I've Googled it and there isn't much out there apart from advertising blurb which is always a little bias.
I was hoping to get some info off someone who either owns or has owned an actual Coonan 1911 .357.
The internet is full of anecdotal "information" as I have found out with trying to chase down Black Powder information into Fact and Fiction, 'cause if any "information" is Cut and Pasted (even the spelling mistakes) into enough online sites then it automatically becomes fact, that's why I would rather get the info from someone who has actually owned one.

Cheers
Gaz
 
If your heart is set on a .357 Magnum autoloader, the .357 Sig cartridge comes pretty close, especially in the most effective self-defense loading - the 125 grain hollow point.

But the beauty of the .357 Magnum in a revolver is that it can be loaded up or down without regard to affecting function. The wheelgun also handles .38 Special. So, from target wadcutters, to deer, to Democrats, to bears, the .357 Magnum is truly the one caliber that can do it all. Provided it's in a revolver.
 
It was just something unusual that came up and I thought I'd see if it was worth even thinking about.
I'm a revolver guy.
This is my collection (there is a Britarms 2000 .22 match pistol that isn't shown as it was at the "Gun Doctors" being mended.
Allofem_zps5550904d.jpg


I don't even own a 9mm and most of my guns aren't run of the mill things, I quite like having something a bit unusual, the all SS Walker for instance, never seen another one and the Peacemaker is the Evil Roy model.

Cheers
Gaz
 
Coonans are quality built guns and they work well. Much less ammo sensitive than DEs and more reasonable in size and weight, just a little larger/heavier than a 1911. You can also run .38spl if you switch to a light recoil spring. If you go to the 1911forum.com and search for Coonan you'll find a ton of info on the originals as we as the new ones they started producing a few years ago, mostly in the "Other 1911s" section. I don't know what the new ones cost, at least $1200 the last time I looked, though to figure value you'll need to know if it an original or a new one, both are good guns but the new ones have some advantages like less expensive and more easily available magazines.


ETA: I used to have an original Coonan Model B, I'd take a Coonan over a DE every time. DEs are too big, too heavy, and their gas systems can be too ammo sensitive to make them anything more than a novelty, unless you want a .44mag auto (I think it's your only option).
 
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Gaz, two words: buy it, and if it's a the newer "Classic" model, three words: buy it now!, cuz the newer models can shoot 357 mag and 38 Spl. with the simple change of the recoil spring, however the Coonan's require that you shoot only hot loads in it to cycle, that means no watered down factory rounds, only BB, Underwood, ect., oh and if handload, only hot rounds, no Unique, Lil gun, ect., same goes for 38 Spl. rounds as well. folks on here(and other forums) that own Coonans, have posted to getting up to 1800fps:eek: out of their Coonans, even the min. vel. to get the gun to cycle, are around 1500fps, i haven't seen very often those kinds of numbers out of wheelguns when it comes to 357mag. oh all of that out of a 5" semi-auto barrel, which many compare to equaling a 4" wheelgun barrel, since that the measurement of a semi-auto includes the chamber.

P.S. Also Gaz, if that's a 357mag levergun in the pic that you posted, that 1800fps i mentioned, is about the average vel. of a factory 357mag round that comes of the levergun, so it is possible to obtain that kind of vel. out of the Coonan:eek:, albeit with hot loads.
 
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Yep, the Rossi M92 is a .357, so is the Python and the Evil Roy Peacemaker. The Richards Mason conversion is .38Spec only and the BP guns are all .44 cal.

Thanks for all the info guys, it's very much appreciated.

The Coonan is at Gun City in Auckland (some 300 miles) so I'll ring 'em in the morning and get some details, like age, number of mags, does it have the weaker .38 spring with it and does it have the instruction and strip-down manual etc.

Cheers
Gaz
 
I chose the Desert Eagle XIX over the Coonan simply because it has interchangeable barrels/bolts. I bought the .44 magnum model and then bought a .357 magnum kit and a 10" .357 magnum barrel. It is heavier than the Coonan, not as pretty, but then I use it for hunting not looking at, nor concealed carry. The Desert Eagle needs 'full house loads' and the full house .357 magnum loads recoil like .38 Special out of an L-Frame S&W, quite mild. Lead bullets are not to be used as they will plug up the gas port and end the life of the pistol. As noted above the loads chosen must not be 'Wimpy' loads, but I have had no problem with a mix of factory ammunition and my reloads working.

I would think your choice would all depend upon what you intend to use it for. I notice you are in NZ. I don't think Coonan sells outside the USA. Does NZ have import restrictions ?

Good luck. I doubt you will be disappointed in a Coonan. My Desert Eagle holds 10 .357 magnum rounds in the magazine, and 1 in the barrel. 11 .357 magnum shots brings a smile to my face, especially since the recoil is like a mild .38 Special. :D
 
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You seem to be able to buy almost anything in NZ but importing trigger mechanisms and the like takes a bit of doing with lots of paperwork and lots of mutterings from the authorities but it's better than waiting for the importers or agents in NZ to get the parts for you, that could take upwards of 12 months as they are very unwilling to buy small amounts of spares from the manufacturers, they prefer to wait until they have a large amount of things to order as it's easier on the price of shipping and they can make more profit. I'm talking handgun stuff here anything for a rifle or for hunting is normally kept in stock but us pistol shooters don't generate enough profit for the gun shops so they really can't be bothered to motivate them selves and act more like the Ferengi... anything can be got quicker if you're willing to pay way over the odds for it.
There are precious few good dealers in NZ for anything to do with handguns but Neil Hayes (for anyone in NZ reading this) up at Carterton is real good and honest guy.
I have got main springs and all the other bits I needed for my Britarms match .22 pistol from the UK without any problems but the package wasn't labeled "gun spares" for the customs people.

Spares for a Coonan could be a problem in NZ but it is such an unusual gun that it may well be worth considering.

Cheers
Gaz
 
I'm getting interested in the Coonan. How do the new ones compare to the old Model B in terms of build quality? Better? The same? Worse? I don't know that much about Coonans of either era.
 
I've handled and shot a Coonan 1911 .357....neat idea but too much girth in the handle to adapt the longer .357 OAL in the 1911 platform to what I find comfortable or am used to ! I'll stick with 10mm 1911's and .357 revolvers but it is a cool & well made pistol and you might really like it !
 
good point on the grip. If 10mm 1911's fit better and you want .357 ballistics what you want is a 9x25 Dillon. 10mm AUTO necked down to .355 it'll outpace .357 mag with similar weight bullets.
9x25 = 1700 FPS 125 grains
.357 runs about ~1600FPS with a 125 grain bullet

It's basically a .357 sig on steroids since it uses the full size 10mm case rather than the .40S&W case.
You'll likely have to reload if you want cheap ammo, but the same holds true for the 10mm if you want full powered loads and/or cheaper ammo.
 
Looks like they have sold it, it didn't last long in the shop.
But on the bright side someone at the club is selling a Tanfoglio "The Ultra" IPSC Approved 9mm with 4 mags and a holster spare firing pin, 3 main springs of different tension, spare hammer and a load of other spares, original fitted case and case candy for $500NZ, the Coonan was 1 mag, no case or any spares for $1200NZ. So I bought the Tanfoglio 9mm.

Cheers
and thanks to all who replied,
Gaz
 
I own one and love it. When you order it get the 6" barrel for a little extra $$. I have had zero issues with it and when I leave this fair state it will be my carry gun. I have dabbled in reloads in it and they fed with zero issues. The 38's I have not messed with yet but that will come with time.
 
Magazines

I have two, one with fixed sights and one with adjustable. They are both GREAT guns.

The Desert Eagle is gas operated. The Coonan is recoil operated just as other 1911 PATTERN (nod to you, Aquila Blanca) gun is. Coonans do not have a barrel link, but a ramp, instead. (I think the term is correct.)

Things not mentioned already:

The magazine springs are VERY strong. But Coonan provides a pin you can insert through the follower to pull it down, making loading the magazine much easier. A 3" finishing nail will do if you don't have an original.

The magazine not only makes the grip longer (if you have small hands, you probably will not fit the gun), but the magazine will not fit in the Uplula magazine loader, which many feel is the best mag loader made.

Magazines are expensive, about $70 (U.S.) or so.

I am so sorry you lost out on the one you found.

Your specific questions:

what are they like?
Weighty. They are stainless steel, VERY solid feeling in the hand. The smooth grips, though do not give the firm friction I want in a carry gun, so would replace them with checkered ones for every day carry.

are they any good? is one worth considering?
Absolutely, yes

are they reliable?
Mine are. I mostly shoot my own reloaded lead semi-wadcutters and have never had one feeding problem with them. The few hollowpoints I have shot have had no feeding problems, either. The only function problems I have ever had have been ejection failures, due to low power (I load a lot of my .357 brass to nearly 38 Special power levels.) Heaviest bullets have been 158 grain and lightest, 125 grain. I have never tried running the 180 grain bullets through the guns.

Would it be better to consider a DE .357 instead of this?
That would be a personal preference. I have a friend who had a 44 Mag DE, so that is m only sample for comparison. The DE uses a rotating bolt lockup (I believe). so might be stronger. The complexity of cleaning a gas-operated gun and the weight would make me prefer the Coonan.

Is it as fussy on ammo as the DE is?
I have no idea how fussy the DE is or what makes it so. Feeding? Cycling the action? or the inadvisability of using cast lead in a gas gun?

Would it take Home Loads with little or no problem?
I shoot nothing (almost) but ammo I reload myself. No problems there. In fact, if you do your part, home-loaded ammo will be virtually identical to commercially loaded ammo and often better.

Lost Sheep
 
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I have a Coonan Model A (one of the 1500 produced). It uses the swinging link of the 1911. The Model B (the bulk of production, and essentially the gun being made today as the Coonan Classic) uses the cam system found on many other pistols, such as Sigs.

The smooth grips, though do not give the firm friction I want in a carry gun, so would replace them with checkered ones for every day carry.
Click to expand...

I agree about the smooth grip panels. My gun came with a set of rubber grips (origin unknown, but the were clearly made for the Coonan), and when I replaced the wood with the rubber, the gun felt MUCH better in my hands.

Would it be better to consider a DE .357 instead of this?
Click to expand...

That all depends on what you want out of the gun. I have had two .357 Desert Eagles, and currently have a .44 Mag. All were the early model guns, now called Mark I's.

The only thing the Coonan and the Desert Eagle have in common is the .357 Magnum chamber, and both are handguns.

The Coonan is, essentially a 1911 style or pattern pistol. It is a slightly scaled up duty gun. The Desert Eagle is a much different design, significantly larger, and much heavier (4.25lbs empty). It does not use the Browning tilt barrel lockup, and is gas operated. It an entirely different beast.

Is it as fussy on ammo as the DE is?
I have no idea how fussy the DE is or what makes it so. Feeding? Cycling the action? or the inadvisability of using cast lead in a gas gun?
Click to expand...

Both guns are "fussy" about ammo, meaning that they both need full power .357 ammo to cycle the action reliably. The recoil operated Coonan doesn't care if the ammo is jacketed or cast, only that it has enough "oomph".

The Desert Eagle needs jacketed bullet ammo, only. Lead bullet ammo can clog the gas system, and the design of the gas system makes part of it extremely difficult, if not impossible to clean. There are gas operated designs that can be fully disassembled and cleaned if they get plugged with lead, powder residue & bullet lube, but the Desert Eagle isn't one of them. SO NO LEAD BULLETS in the DE, or its very likely you will, at some point be looking at buying another barrel assembly. The maker tells you not to run lead, and does not warranty the gun repair if you do.

My experience is that both guns run fine on handloads that are tailored to the gun.

Also, just FYI, velocities from the autos are significantly higher than "equal barrel length" revolvers. While I don't have any data from the Coonan, I do from an early DE .357, which was clocked launching 125gr JHPs at 1720fps from its 6" polygonal rifling barrel. The same load was 50fps slower in a 6" S&W N frame, and 100fps faster than from a 6" S&W Model 19. Also that load (and no, I'm not going to tell,) was too hot for the M19, cases could not be extracted by hand alone. The N frame (M28) cases extracted normally.

And the DE ate them like candy.
 
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