Converting N-frame revolver to SAO?

S

SteveC

New member
It turns out that single action only revolvers over 6.5" in length are exempt from "safety testing" in CA. I know it sounds very strange, but just think of CA as a foreign country, but not really (like, for example, Canada).

Anyway, Dan Wesson is able to ship their revolvers to CA by converting them to SAO (which is handy to know if Californians have been lusting after a DW 460 or whatever). I'm think it may be possible to order some other gun (like a Model 25) and have the DA deactivated, turning it into a pure SA target revolver.

My question is, has anyone ever ordered gun and had it routed through a gunsmith for work, before picking it up from the FFL? Can you send it to the smith before actually taking possession? Can an FFL send it to a smith on your behalf?

I know it sounds weird, but one needs to be creative when dealing with a powerful, but idiotic opponent like the California state assembly.

Steve
 
Kalifornia Blues!

No. I have not seen anyone convert a double to a single action only. With the wacky, hard to understand, laws you folks have in your state I would only purchase something like that through an FFL hopefully to ensure legality.

Every time I read/hear about the guns laws in Kalifornia I know that it is my obligation to regularly write/email my State and Federal elected officials and express my strong opinions AGAINST more gun laws. In addition I donate what little I can to pro gun candidates and causes.

It's extremely important for each of us to get out this November and VOTE!
 
SO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU

bought one of these SA dan wessons and say six months down the road ordered a new hammer from the factory? A little gunsmith work and you would have a fully functional DA SIXGUN. But would it be legal? after all it WAS a SA when you BOUGHT it. You just CUSTOMIZED it afterwords<g>. SO WOULD IT WORK?
 
This may not be as crazy as it sounds. If I am not mistaken. S&W used to offer the Model 14 in a single action only version, and did factory conversions of the double action to single action only. Now of course this was a K-Frame, and it is no longer done (I called and asked) but if there was enough demand, I am sure it would be done again. I would call a few of the nationally recognized revolver smiths and talk to them about it.
 
It's very easy to "convert" a Smith & Wesson handgun to single action only.

All you have to do is punch out a single pin on the hammer, and collect the pin, a tensioning spring, and the DA sear.

I frequently do this when I'm doing single-action tuning work on a Smith.
 
Buy the part...

Used to be you could buy the single action trigger itself from Smith and Wesson. They had one for years in a gunshop in Williamson West Virginia. All that had to be done was for it to be installed.
I have wondered if some Modern Class shooters in Cowboy action have thought about possibly doing this and bending the rules a bit....
 
I might be wrong, but AFAIK the only thing S&W did to those K-38's was just like Mike says, remove what S&W calls the sear (others call it the hammer strut or hammer dog).

But then they would ban the possession of DA parts, with house to house searches for hammer struts. How does it go - "any part or combination of parts..." Seems I have read those words before.

Jim
 
"bought one of these SA dan wessons and say six months down the road ordered a new hammer from the factory? A little gunsmith work and you would have a fully functional DA SIXGUN. But would it be legal? "

Let me explain since I just went through this. If SA's are exempt or given less testing? I don't know, maybe. But: the gun has to be on the DOJ approved list or it absolutely cannot be purchased here in kali. Period. Sending through a gunsmith to remove the DA sear from the hammer won't help. It will still arrive wearing a model number which is unapproved so you can't buy it.

As to modifying it after purchase? YES, that's legal. As long as the serial number isn't changed and you don't try to build a fully automatic weapon, you're golden. I had an entirely new top end built for an old 1911 frame and it was completely legal (talked directly to the DOJ). You can definitely change the hammer, trigger, barrel, caliber, fnish, sights, etc. Anything you want to do, as long as the frame is still wearing the original serial number.
 
Don't forget that it's legal to do party/party transfers of the guns within the state of models which aren't on the approval list.



If it's coming into the state for sale by a dealer, then it's gotta be on the approval list. Doesn't matter if it's from a manufacturer or another gun dealer through party/party, it's gotta be on the approval list for the dealer himself to be able to sell it.


But there is some wording within the bill that does allow single action revolvers to get in without being on the approval list. I can still get a Freedom Arms revolver, having checked with my local shops, even though the Freedom Arms revolvers are not on the state approval list.



Every time I think of this garbage, all I can think of is one classic line from Heartbreak Ridge, "Cluster ****"
 
Might want to contact Dan Wesson

BountyH:
Let me explain since I just went through this. If SA's are exempt or given less testing? I don't know, maybe. But: the gun has to be on the DOJ approved list or it absolutely cannot be purchased here in kali. Period. Sending through a gunsmith to remove the DA sear from the hammer won't help. It will still arrive wearing a model number which is unapproved so you can't buy it.
Click to expand...

There is a lot of FUD about the DOJ regs, with a good amount of it coming from the FFL's themselves. I've been looking at the original text of the laws, and contacting manufacturers.

I contacted someone at Dan Wesson, and they told me that for California, they ship their revolvers modified at the factory for SAO. They're not bothering to qualify their 1911's for CA though.

Single action revolvers ARE handled differently. Here is the text of the bill
I went back and checked, the overall length has to be 7.5" (I put 6.5" above).

Here is the relevant quote:
12133. The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a five-cartridge capacity
with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of
the following specifications:
(a) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(b) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least seven and one-half inches when the handle, frame or receiver,
and barrel are assembled.
(c) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least seven and one-half inches when the handle, frame or receiver,
and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for
importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of
paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the
United States Code.
Click to expand...

The fact that Dan Wesson claims they've shipped their revolvers to CA seems to prove that at least _some_ FFL's have seen this section. If you look at the DOJ lists, none of Ruger's single action revolvers are listed (despite the fact that almost all of Ruger's other guns are listed), and none of the Dan Wesson revolvers are listed.

Steve
 
444 is correct that S&W used to offer a K frame target gun with a SA mechanism only. If one wanted to argue semantics, then disabling the hammer cocking (SA) function and only retaining the trigger cocking (DA) function would make it a Single Action revolver, since it could only be fired in one way. More work for the bottom feeders...
 
actually it would still be a DA, because the trigger is still cocking and firing the gun. Reference DAO pistols.

Owen
 
Disabling the single action aspect of a Smith revolver would require grinding or cutting the sear off the trigger, or the sear seat off the hammer.

Once you do that, if you want to return it to full functionality, you'd have to replace the hammer or trigger.
 
Ugh, if ya gotta do this...

...do it to a Dan Wesson, ok? Their DA trigger pulls were never too thrilling to begin with, you wouldn't be losing out on all that much!:barf: I do try to lobby lawmakers at federal and state levels, having seen the Kali standards and wanting that disease spread no further. But geez, if your atty. gen next says you can only have the revos if 5 out of 6 cylinder chambers are welded shut, are you gonna post in asking about the best way to do this too? I don't mean to offend-honest, man I try to do my part to be politically pro gun rights--but the constant reshifting of the ground rules is just too much to take sometimes. Sorry, rant off. Mr. Irwin once again is steering you properly, follow his advice and you'll do fine. Shoot smart and keep fightin'!
 
Don't have to cut the sear off the S&W revolver to make it SAO. You need only use a punch to remove the sear and the sear spring from the hammer. That way when the trigger is pressed for DA mode, the trigger nose doesn't contact anything and since it doesn't contact anything, the hammer isn't rotated rearwards. That's exactly what Mike Irwin was talking about in his earlier post.

Grinding off the single action sear notch on the hammer would make the revolver a DAO revolver. That's what LAPD use to do back in the '70s and '80s. My brother bought a gun that was owned by a retired LAPD officer. The wife sold it to him when he died. My brother checked it out, found there was a "problem" with the action and knew I could fix it muy pronto. He bought it for a decent price (widow was happy and so was he) without taking her to the cleaners (paid more than any dealer would have).
 
I came across a SAO 6" S&W Model 14-2 some years ago while working in a gunshop in So. Cal. The guy had tried to sell it at another shop and was sent away because the gun was "broken". If you pull the trigger as for double action, the cylinder rotates and the hammer dips slightly, but will not fire. S&W made these M14s for bullseye shooters and they tend to be the "cream of the crop" if you can find one. They were manufactured in 1963 only. You don't even wanna know what I paid for it, but I'm still smiling!:D
 
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