Contemplating a 9mm

N

Nightcrawler

New member
I'm contemplating a 9x19mm handgun. I'm not sure which one I want, though. I've handled few and have never fired a 9mm.

Here are my criteria:

-15+ round magazines readily available for less than $50.00 each.
-Full size.
-Reliable and well-built.
-Magazine should drop free when the mag release is hit.
-Ambidextrious saftey UNLESS the ONLY saftey is a decocker, then it doesn't really matter.
-External hammer, ability to fire single action.

The following will award the gun BONUS points and make it more desirable:

-Lots of accessories available. I think an evil threaded barrel would be cool.
-Reliable 20 round magazines available. 20 is a nice, even number, and if you're going to carry a semiauto, you ought to maximize capacity as much as possible.
-Decocker AND manual saftey.
-Real kudos if the gun can be carried locked & cocked, decocked, AND decocked with the saftey on.

Guns I've contemplated:

CZ-75
MRI Baby Eagle/Jericho 941
Sig P226
Ruger P-89

I AM willing to save up for a more expensive handgun, but if I can get a high quality gun for a low price that's even better.
 
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Oh, yes, please keep in mind that I'm left handed. That said, I think the CZ85 Combat fills all of my criteria. Hmm...
 
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Sig-Sauer P226; without a doubt. Excellent firearm,
straight from the box.:D :)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
CZ 75B Mil. The best 9mm for the money by far! So what do I know right?! You can get one for under $400 with two magazines, a 15 and 10.
 
Check out the CZ85B instead of the 85 Combat. you probably don't want to pay for that adjustable rear sight. You can easily replace the magazine spring on the 75B/85B to make it drop free (CZ has the part).
 
CZ 85B or CZ 85 Combat. I really like Sigs, but they're not lefty friendly. The advantage of the 85 is ambidextrous thumb safety and slide stop. Between the 85B and 85 Combat, you can't go wrong with either. CZ's are priced pretty well too.

The 85 doesn't have a decocker though, and if you intend to carry hammer down on on a loaded chamber, you'll have to manually lower the hammer by pulling the trigger.
 
I agree: CZ-85B.

(I have and like the CZ-85 Combat better, but its a gun I use in IDPA competition. It doesn't have the firing pin block, which is probably a good safety feature for someone new to handgunning.)

The ruger P-95 would be BETTER than the P-89. More ergonomic, with a number of improvements. The 15 round mags for the P-89 fit it, and are still abundant and inexpensive.

Any of the EAA Witness/Tanfolio guns are very similar to the CZ line (they are clones), but generally don't have triggers that are as good. The Baby Desert Eagles are similar.

The SIGs are fine guns. I have always had trouble with the DA/SA transaction with their guns, and sold my third and last SIG earlier this year.

A Glock 17 or Glock 19 would be a great gun, too, but the hi-cap mags are pricey.
 
CZ Questions

I'm a little sketchy on some of these features.

Okay, the CZ-85 is all ambidextrious. Does the regular 85 have a drop-free magazine (why on earth would anybody want a pistol that the magazines DIDN'T drop free?), or do I have to pay extra for the combat model to get that?

It doesn't have a decocker? Okay, I'm guessing it can be carried locked and cocked. But is there a way to safely lower the hammer? (As opposed to doing it like you'd do on a 1911, which makes me nervous.)
 
The one pistol that fits the bill on just about every criteria you've mentioned is the Beretta 92FS.

There are plenty of 15-round magazines available for it, and they're probably the most affordable pre-ban magazines for any gun. 20-rounders are also still out there, although abit more expensive than the 15-rounders.

It has a manual safety which also acts as a decocker (alas, it can't be carried cocked and locked.) It is stone-axe reliable, accurate, easy to shoot, and well made.

There are also plenty of cool accessories available for Beretta 92s, including threaded barrels.
 
Beretta 92

Yeah, I know the M9 would be a great choice. It's just...well, I swore up and down that I'd never buy the King of the Wundernines once, and my friends will giggle at me if I do. :p

Of course...if I *did* get the Hollywood Favorite, I"d have to get ANOTHER gun with more character...wouldn't I? That would give me a LOVELY excuse to buy that Ruger Redhawk 5.5" stainless in .45 Colt that the other shop has, wouldn't it?

Hee hee...



Oh, yeah, I should mention that I do really like the Browning Hi-Power, and no, I don't mind that it's single action (so long as the controls are ambi, which they are on all the late models).

The only reason I'd hesitate on that is because I've heard that the magazines don't drop free for some reason. I've also heard that some do and some don't (apparently the 13 rouders don't, but the 17 round military ones do). Somebody wanna clarify on this?
 
You wrote:

Okay, the CZ-85 is all ambidextrious. Does the regular 85 have a drop-free magazine (why on earth would anybody want a pistol that the magazines DIDN'T drop free?), or do I have to pay extra for the combat model to get that?

It doesn't have a decocker? Okay, I'm guessing it can be carried locked and cocked. But is there a way to safely lower the hammer? (As opposed to doing it like you'd do on a 1911, which makes me nervous.)

----------------

The 85B doesn't have drop-free mags (or, more correctly, a mag break that allows the mags to drop free), but that's something you can fix with pliers or a $6.00 part.

The mag break from the 85 Combat is interchangeable, and you can order directly from CZ. You can also adjust the existing mag break spring -- a long bent piece of metal -- to allow them to drop free, too -- but its brittle, and you can break it. [He says, knowingly...]

The CZ-85B can be carried cocked and locked. The primary concern about cocked and locked carry is a discharge if its dropped. With the firing pin block, the only way the gun will discharge is if the trigger is pulled fully to the rear, disengaging the block.

Cocked and locked is more a state of mind than a safety problem --- you'll get used to it. And if you don't want to carry cocked and locked, you have the option of doing hammer down, DA first shot.

Incidentally, I had a Beretta 96. (Same as the 92, but in .40 s&w) Very nice gun, but I always had trouble with the double-action to single-action transition. (I had the same problem with my SIGs) That is NOT as big a problem with the CZ. (With my 85 Combat, its virtually NOT a problem.)

The Beretta was just too damned big for my taste. Not a good concealed carry gun; a 1911 is easier to carry from my experience.

Have you looked at the Elite, the Border Ranger, etc.?

-----

Just thought of another PLUS for the CZ...

You can get the factory Kadet .22 adapter kit. After I got mine, I sold my Ruger Target Competition (slab side); the Kadet Kit on my 85 Combat was just as accurate, and I preferred shooting the CZ to the Ruger (the CZ is more ergonomically correct for me.)
 
One more requirement.

Just thought of this. STRENGTH! The gun ought to be able to handle anything I can stuff into the chamber. THat means I should be able to fire three thousand rounds of Cor-Bon +P+ and not have to worry. Not that I could AFFORD that much Cor-Bon (it'd cost more than the gun), but it's the principle of the thing.

So, that requirement laid out, which guns are left?
 
A full-size H&K USP fills every item EXCEPT for cheap pre-ban magazines (around $75). The safety isn't ambi, but a left-handed version is available.

It also has your last two bonus criteria, and a threaded barrel is available from a third party.
 
Finalists

Well, the two finalists for my 9x19mm pistol of choice seem to be the Beretta 92 and the Browning Hi-Power. Allow me to weigh the pros and cons of each, and you all can feel free to opine as you see fit.

Beretta 92F

Pros

-Meets most of my critera.
-15, 17, and 20 round magazines available at decent prices.
-Threaded barrels available.
-Well made, reliable.
-Looks cool.
-Local gunshop ALWAYS has Beretta 92s in. Wouldn't have to order it and wait.

Cons

-No locked & cocked carry.
-On the military ones I've handled, the single action trigger is sprongy as hell. Don't know if it's the same on the regular one.
-It's big for a 9mm.


Browning Hi-Power Practical

Pros

-Looks good.
-Slender frame.
-VERY ergonomic.
-Plenty of 13, 15, 17, and 20 round magazines available at decent cost.
-Single action, locked and cocked carry.
-Plenty of parts and accessories available.

Cons

-Apparently, the magazines don't drop free.
-I've heard hammer-bite horror stories.
-No decocker.
-Apparently, it can't fire without a magazine in the gun.

______________

Well, there you have it. Opinions?
 
My choice of defensive handguns is the 1911. That being said, there is no other caliber that offers cooler guns than the 9mm. I can't see how anyone can resist owning several. Any of the ones mentioned are superb examples of the gun making art. Each one has a well thought out design and offers umatched quality. When I examine 9mms, I seem to want them all.
When I read your criteria the words Browning Hi-Power flashed though my head over and over.
Cons

-Apparently, the magazines don't drop free.
-I've heard hammer-bite horror stories.
-No decocker.
-Apparently, it can't fire without a magazine in the gun.

Mine don't drop free unless they have some ammo in them to add a little weight. They do not shoot out like many others do.
I have never had a problem with hammer bite on the Hi-Power.
No decocker. I am not sure what purpose it would serve in a single action pistol but as you say, it doesn't have one.
The magazine safety is eliminated by a very simple mod that takes a few minutes and requires no mechanical skills to speak of. This also greatly improves your trigger pull. Most HI-Power owners perform this mod.

http://www.fnhipower.com/faq.html
 
Drop free magazines is an American thing. The CZ is basically a military weapon. During a mag change you don't want it to drop free out of the gun and lose it on the battelfield.
You mention the gun has to be strong. The CZ brand gun is indeed very strong. I would be willing to say they are stronger than the Beretta, which still breaks locking blocks. As fas the strength compared between the CZ and the BHP, I don't know as I don't have any experience with the BHP. The CZ is definetly an outstanding pistol that is sold at a great price, you get more gun than you pay for.
 
Strong??
Ruger
CZ
BHP

REALLY NICE 9mm?
Sig 226

VERY AFFORDABLE 9mm?
FEG Hi-Power

If you remove the "magazine disconnecter the trigger is nicer AND the magazines drop free.. which is nice for competition, but maybe less useful in "real" life.

The BHP does have a short rear end and you can get bitten by the hammer. I've done it many many times.
 
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