Constitutional Carry vs Business Owners

S

steve4102

New member
I have a couple questions about Constitution Carry and the property rights of others, specifically CC in KY.

It is my understanding that Open Carry is guaranteed by the KY State Constitution and one can open carry "anywhere", whereas Concealed carry comes with certain restrictions. True?

I have read on other defensive carry forums that because Open Carry is a Constitution Right in KY, that businesses that are "open" to the public cannot even post a "No Open Carry" sign. It has been said the a business can "post" a No Concealed Carry sign, but they cannot post a "No Open" carry sign as that would violate the KY State Constitution.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect, but I am not 100% sure. I have asked some of these defensive carry guys if they had any State Statutes or Constitutional lingo, that would back this up. I was told there is no state statute prohibiting a No Open Carry sign, as it is not needed because the State Constitution already forbids it. :confused:

I find this hard to believe, but I am at a loss as to where to go/search to find if they are indeed correct or not.

Is it even possible that Constitutional Open Carry overrides the Rights of private business owners to post a No Open Carry sign?
 
As far as I know, in every state the laws pertaining to permit/license requirements (if any) are separate from the laws regarding where one can carry. I'm not a lawyer nor am I an expert, but I've never heard of any jurisdiction that allows open carry in places where concealed carry is restricted or prohibited. The concept just doesn't make sense.

Think about it. If a state allows open carry without a license but requires a permit to carry concealed (such as, for example, Pennsylvania) -- why would anyone get a concealed carry license if they could go places open carrying where they wouldn't be allowed with a concealed firearm?

steve4102 said:
I have read on other defensive carry forums that because Open Carry is a Constitution Right in KY, that businesses that are "open" to the public cannot even post a "No Open Carry" sign. It has been said the a business can "post" a No Concealed Carry sign, but they cannot post a "No Open" carry sign as that would violate the KY State Constitution.
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But constitutions define the limits of government powers. A state's constitution can't override a property owner's freedom to prohibit weapons in/on his property. If that were possible, wouldn't there also be constitutional issues with restaurants that post "No shirt, no shoes -- no service" signs?
 
private property owners have the right to ban the carrying of firearms on their premises. the law regarding legal posting varies by state.
 
your constitutional rights only apply in public places.
carry laws, whether open or concealed likewise only apply to public places. Business properties are private properties, they may allow the public access but are not public places and can prohibit anything they want. This is true for the entire United States. You can be 100% certain what you heard was not true.

What you really should be asking is if no guns signs carry the force of the law? A business can post any sign they want regardless of the constitution.

An excellent resource for current carry laws for each state is handgunlaw.us you can read the Kentucky specific article here: http://handgunlaw.us/states/kentucky.pdf
 
They have gone so far as to claim that a Business cannot even post a No Open Carry Sign, but they can post a no Concealed carry sign.:confused:
 
steve4102 said:
They have gone so far as to claim that a Business cannot even post a No Open Carry Sign, but they can post a no Concealed carry sign.
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they can post whatever sign they want.
 
It is my understanding that Open Carry is guaranteed by the KY State Constitution and one can open carry "anywhere", whereas Concealed carry comes with certain restrictions. True?
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It's a stretch to assume Kentucky allows carry in prisons, courtrooms, or on federal property, nor that they prohibit private businesses from banning it.

That said, the state code seems a little confusing. The only prohibitions I see involve those for whom concealed carry licenses have been issued. Is this an oversight in the legislation, or am I missing something?
 
I have no problem honoring someone's sigh to keep guns out. I will, many other places want my business.
It's common courtesy, and the last thing we need is a group showing up with guns in a store claiming they have a right to be there... cops get called, bad day for everyone, especially those who weren't there, but have to suffer more legislation they didn't cause.

As Rodney King said, "Can't we all get along?"
 
a little off topic. but even though I have heard that Target and Starbucks have caved to pressure(well, maybe Starbucks didn't require pressure), I have yet to see a sing posted at any of their locations around here. and I frequent both companies a lot throughout the city. outside of schools and medical, I don't ever see any no weapons signs
 
Target and Starbucks didn't cave along with Chipotle. They just asked people to be respectful of others. No need to sling ARs aroybd
 
Section 1 of the Kentucky Constitution states, in relevant part:
All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned: . . .

Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.
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The Kentucky Supreme Court has specifically held the right to possess firearms does not extend to felons and there are legislative restrictions on open carry in certain "sensitive areas" such as schools. Concealed carry requires a license subject to several exceptions such as schools. For more information on this, look at http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/ccdw/restrictions.html.

Carry in glove box, center console, map box, etc. of a car is, by statute, not considered concealed carry and a CCL is not required.
 
I have been following the links provided and found this.

(16) Except as provided in KRS 527.020, no license issued pursuant to this section
shall authorize any person to carry a concealed firearm into:
(a) Any police station or sheriff's office;
(b) Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
(c) Any courthouse, solely occupied by the Court of Justice courtroom, or
court proceeding;
(d) Any meeting of the governing body of a county, municipality, or special
district; or any meeting of the General Assembly or a committee of theGeneral Assembly, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a
member of the body, holding a concealed deadly weapon license, from
carrying a concealed deadly weapon at a meeting of the body of which he
or she is a member;


I can't find anything on Open Carry here.
Is it legal to Open carry in the above places?
Everything I have found spells out Concealed carry and ignores Open Carry except, Schools and Bars. Does this mean that OC is actually allowed in places like Court rooms?
 
I have read on other defensive carry forums that because Open Carry is a Constitution Right in KY, that businesses that are "open" to the public cannot even post a "No Open Carry" sign. It has been said the a business can "post" a No Concealed Carry sign, but they cannot post a "No Open" carry sign as that would violate the KY State Constitution.
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I suggest you look at the site posted here. My reading of KY State Statute 237.104 is clear.....no restrictions and the state exercised its power for Preemption.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/chapter.aspx?id=38384
 
Sigowner said:
My reading of KY State Statute 237.104 is clear.....no restrictions...
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237.104 Rights to acquire, carry, and use deadly weapons not to be impaired
-- Seizure of deadly weapons prohibited -- Application of section.
(1) No person, unit of government, or governmental organization shall, during a
period of disaster or emergency as specified in KRS Chapter 39A or at any
other time, have the right to revoke, suspend, limit the use of, or otherwise
impair the validity of the right of any person to purchase, transfer, loan, own,
possess, carry, or use a firearm, firearm part, ammunition, ammunition
component, or any deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.
(2) No person, unit of government, or governmental organization shall, during a
period of disaster or emergency as specified in KRS Chapter 39A or at any
other time, take, seize, confiscate, or impound a firearm, firearm part,
ammunition, ammunition component, or any deadly weapon or dangerous
instrument from any person.
(3) The provisions of this section shall not apply to the taking of an item specified
in subsection (1) or (2) of this section from a person who is:
(a) Forbidden to possess a firearm pursuant to KRS 527.040;
(b) Forbidden to possess a firearm pursuant to federal law;
(c) Violating KRS 527.020;
(d) In possession of a stolen firearm;
(e) Using a firearm in the commission of a separate criminal offense; or
(f) Using a firearm or other weapon in the commission of an offense under
KRS Chapter 150.
Effective:July 12, 2006
History: Created 2006 Ky. Acts ch. 240, sec. 7, effective July 12, 2006.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=43448

527.020 Carrying concealed deadly weapon

Is not 5 (a) restrictions?
 
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