Considering 6.5 Grendel Upper for AR

C

CTS

New member
I am wondering if anyone has any experience with the 6.5 Grendel round in AR platform and specifically, the one from JT Distributing. I am considering this route but undecided between that and 6.8SPC. It seems that all the 6.8 complete uppers are in 16" version and would prefer something longer. The JT Distributing model in 6.5 has 20" barrel but, it is so much cheaper than everyone else that it makes you wonder. Anyone own this particular model, or have any thoughts on it?
http://jtdistributing.net/store/product1136.html
 
What do you plan to shoot at? First determine in numbers what distances you will shoot this gun over, and then, what target?

Once the range and target is nailed down, then you choose what cartridge fits that best. From there, the barrel length is then already chosen because either has it's optimal length.

That means a cartridge is designed specifically for a barrel length, too. If you are seeing a lot of 6.8's in 16", it's because it was specifically designed to shoot from military length 14.5" M4 barrels. Those are an NFA item to the public, so all the makers offer 16" legal barrels. The 6.8 was also specifically designed to shoot LIVE targets out to 500m. The 6.5G was emphatically not, the purpose being to neck up the precision 6mm PPC and use it on long range precision competition out at 600m, which it does very well.

Don't pick the cartridge first, then attempt to force it into your mold. 6.5G's in 16" barrels do ok, they can't and won't perform to their best capability because they won't get shot at small targets beyond 500m, where they shine. 6.8SPC's in 20" barrels won't work as well on the long range firing line because the larger bullet doesn't retain energy as well and won't remain as stable.

Define the range and target, then choose the correct cartridge, and don't get the cart before the horse. You can't haul a load of plywood in the back of a Miata, anymore than you can road race pickup trucks. Sure, it's done, consider in either case, the driver likely wears their ball cap backwards, too. :rolleyes:
 
I have a 6.5G from J&T ... I'm still working up an accuracy load, but I am getting right about 1 MOA right now when I shoot it at 100yds. I got it because I do a fair amount of my shooting at extended ranges 600-1000 yds and I thought it would be fun to have an AR that could do that well. I haven't yet taken it out to the long range, but given the BC of the 123gr AMAX and the accuracy I'm seeing in close, I think that it will do well. I will likely use it next year on an antelope hunt. All in all, I am happy with J&T's build. If you are going to reload, do yourself a favor and get the cheaper LEE dies, they actually work better than the Hornady ones.

Saands

Edited to add: I just followed your link and I didn't get the one you are looking at ... mine is a 24" bull barreled upper with a free-floating tube.
 
6.5 Grendell vs 6.8 SPC

Infantry Discussion Board Subject: 6.5 Grendell vs 6.8 SPC

I have been testing both 6.5 Grendell and 6.8 SPC cartridges in both AR-15 and bolt action formats for more than a year. I have been benchrest shooting and reloading since 1963 and feel that I have a ligimate voice in this issue. First the availability of ammo and brass. Both are available from moe than two sources. That to me makes them viable candidates for military applications. I have built one rifle each on AR-15 actions and Remington Mod 700 actions. All four rifles delivered excellent results. However, the 6.5 Grendell versions displayed better groups at distances more than 300 yards. At 400 yards the 6.5 Grendell will group 1/2 the best group that the 6.8 SPC can perform. It appears that the 6.8 SPC is limited to distances of about 250 yards. The 6.5 Grendell is very accurate in both formats from 100 yards to 400 yards and further. I have many targets fired at 400 yards that are less than 1/2 MOA. Where as the best 400 yard target with the 6.8 SPC is less than 1 MOA.
Yer' Old Gunny...

This excerpt was taken from 'The Strategy Page Forum'...

See this thread from this month...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4801472#post4801472:D
 
I guess I will find out soon. I took Bushy up on their sale 6.8 uppers and it should get here tomorrow or Monday.

tirod pretty much explained my reasoning for the 6.8 over the 6.5. I am not sure that a experimental set of "1" is a good measure of how it will do at 500 meters. All the ones I have seen in 6.8 group quite well at 500 meters.
 
After doing a little shopping, it appears that the 6.5 Grendel has a much better selection of bullets for reloading at a much better price than those being offered for the 6.8 SPC. Something to consider.
 
6.5 Grendel has a much better selection of bullets

Any of the 6.5 offerings will shoot twice as far, flatter and more accurately than a 6.8SPC, which was Special Forces designated for CQB :cool:

I went throught htis debate for weeks and just ordered a 6.5x47 Lapua barrel today for a Savage bolt rifle.

Good luck with whatever choice you make:)
 
Any thoughts about rifling rate of twist? I see this particular upper offered in either 1 in 9 or 1 in 7.
 
Rifling twist rate varies by model, but ranges from 1:7.5 to 1:9

Selection of the 6.5mm caliber combined with it's case design allows use of bullets from 85 grains to 144 grain in magazine length loadings. 6.5mm bullets provide high ballistic coefficients particularly in the 100-144 weight range with OTM bullets ranging in BC from .444 to .615. In comparison, the 77 grain Sierra in .224 has a .362 BC. In addition to OTM projectiles, there is an abudance of hunting projectiles from Nosler, Swift, Speer and Remington available that will operate magaizne length at respectable velocities that allow the cartridge to be used for a variety of game animals including deer, hogs and sheep. There are also FMJ projectiles in 100, 120 and 144 grain weights available in 6.5mm.

The case design of the 6.5 Grendel was born from the world record holding PPC family (22 and 6mm) of cartridges. Dr Lou Palmisano (Doc PPC), who became a friend of Arne Brennan, watched Arne's development work with great interest as a new variant of his cartridge designs showed its capabilities with higher projectle weights in a platform such as the AR15 / M16. The case for this family of cartridges were designed to be highly efficient combustion chambers that deliver incredible consistancy, often with velocity variations between shots in the single digits ( Consitent Velocity between shots is a major contributor to accuracy) The initial result of Arne's work became a 6.5 PPC optimized to work within the AR15 platform.

In 2002, Bill Alexander was introduced to Arne Brennan by Lothar Walther and Arne shared with Bill Alexander his work and performance obtained over many thousands of rounds of shooting. While the "Grendel" was unveiled in 2003 at Blackwater, the Grendel case was modified by Brennan, Alexander and Lapua into a production version best described a 6.5 PPC with a blown forward shoulder and shorter neck.

Case capacity of the Grendel is just over 35 grains of H20 with powder capacity within 5% of the 6 BR case. During development, a 6.5 BR AR15 was built and tested for many thousands of rounds. While the BR offered a slight increase in case capacity, the gain in velocity was insignificant. This insignificant gain in velocity, combined with the reduced magazine capacity (only 8 rounds in the space of a 20 round .223 Rem magazines), along with the extensive modifications required in the magazines made the BR case impracticle for the commercial market or any other volume user.

Testing and proof work have been underway to test the 6.5 Grendel in benchrest competition (the land of the 22 PPC and 6 PPC) and initial results are showing great promise of being competitive with the smaller caliber PPC family members. On March 6, 2006, Arne Brennan achieved a witnessed 1.198 inch 5 shot group at 660 yards using the Lapua 108 Scenar Projectile with N133 powder... no voodoo or black magic powder / bullets there. In addition, the 6.5 Grendel is being used or being developed in F-Class, Rifle and Handgun Silhouette and of course, High Power Rifle Competition. Further, the 6.5 Grendel is capable of making the 320 power factor (major) in 16-20 inch barrel AR's. With permission from the Commanding Officers, we are allowed to state that both the US Army Marksmanship Unit and US Air Force Shooting Team have match Grendel's which are in testing.

In January 2010, Les Baer discontinued offering "6.5 Grendel" branded products and launched the "264 LBC-AR" having worked with Hornady and Black Hills Ammunition to supply a complete product offering of Rifles, Uppers, Dies, Brass and Loaded Ammo. While Alexander Arms allows other manufacturers to use the "6.5 Grendel" brand under a licensing program, Les Baer has chosen to make it's cartridge "open source". As such, any manufacturer is permitted to use the "264 LBC-AR" chambering and branding without licensing or royalties. Competition Shooting Sports, who always offered a specialized chambering in its specific products, changed the branding of its products to "6.5 CSS" in 2006 so not to conflict with Alexander Arms products. As follow-up to Les Baer's release, Competition Shooting Sports has also released the availability of "264 LBC-AR" products.

Hunting with the 6.5 Grendel is not much of a challenge given the wide availability of premium hunting 6.5mm bullets available including Nosler Ballistic Tips, Nosler Partitions, Swift A-Frame and Swift Scirrocco to name but a few - all work from the magazine. End users have already been using the Grendel to great success on Deer, Hogs, Antelope, and Coyotes.

The Grendel has been fully tested in both semi-auto and full auto operation with no issues. Key to the operational success of the 6.5 Grendel has been the engineering of proper barrel extensions and magazines.

Cartridge Data
Case length: 38.7mm or 1.524"
Case rim: .441"
Case rim thickness: 0.059"
Case base: .439"
Case shoulder diameter: .428"
Case taper: 0.65° each side
Case shoulder angle: 30°
Case maximum loaded neck diameter: .293"
Maximum loaded overall length (OAL) in 6.5 Grendel-specific AR15 magazines: 2.265"
Maximum peak operating pressure: 50,000 psi. Note: The peak pressure of factory ammunition is restricted by the safe, long-term operating limits of the AR15 platform.
Usable case capacity with a 123gr Lapua Scenar bullet seated magazine length is 30.0 grains of BLC2 powder.

Barrels:
Rifling is of the "Boots" Obermeyer 5R type
Rifling is 6-groove, righthand twist
Rifling twist rate varies by model, but ranges from 1:7.5 to 1:9
Bore diameter is .2638"
Lands diameter is .256"

Sample Performance Data by Barrel Length
Barrel 16.1"
144 Lapua FMJBT (.636 BC), AA2520, CCI 450 = 2275 fps
139 Lapua Scenar (.615 BC), AA2520, CCI 450 = 2305 fps
130 Norma (.590 BC), AA2520, CCI 450 = 2425 fps
130 Swift (.571 BC), AA2520, CCI 450 = 2425 fps
Note: OAL = 2.255"

The twist rate for the 6.5 caliber must be carefully matched to the application for the best results. You should not refer to 100-yard accuracy, according to Bill Alexander of Alexander Arms. This is because the ideal twist for such a range would not work well at longer ranges with heavier bullets.
Alexander Arms can be found at...
http://www.alexanderarms.com
(540) 639 8356
 
I own the 20" J&T model. It has been a great gun for me and it even took an Elk for me last year. I also own a 6.8 which was a lot more expensive but built lightweight specifically for hunting. So, the two are hardly comparable because the barrels are so different and the 6.8 is free floated. That said, my Grendel has proven to be the more accurate rifle. I haven't shot the 6.8 with as many different bullets though so that really doesn't say a whole lot.

Having used both for hunting purposes I can tell you that neither one will perform better than the other for that application. Tirod and the other 6.8 guys can tell you that the 6.8 is better. Blacksky and the 6.5 guys can tell you that the 6.5 is better. In reality, shooting something at reasonable hunting range with either caliber is going to result in nearly identical results.

I like shooting my 6.5 a little bit more because "only accurate guns are interesting." Someone may have a more accurate 6.8 than me that finds theirs to be more fun. I just like shooting stuff a long ways away.
 
Again, define the effective ranges and what target, then choose the cartridge that fits best.

In the alternate cartridges for the AR, "operationally effective" is nice language, but the reality is that the Army is sticking with 5.56 for battle carbines, and snipers are moving to .300 Win Mag.

If 6.8 or 6.5 is preferred, sighted in at the same distance, they both will hit the same paper plate. The trajectories aren't that dissimilar, despite the fanboy talk. They are literally more alike than different, simply because they are both forced to conform to the overall loaded length compatible with AR15 magazines, and the overall maximum effective diameter of the AR15 bolt face. Given the span of cartridges available from the .177 Bee to .50 BMG, it's overstating things by a large factor to suggest one is twice as accurate or flatter shooting. Not by a long shot.

The history of the 6.5G is well known, a precision competition cartridge based on another precision competition cartridge. It's all about the PPC case, which has had a renown career among those who set records punching one small hole in paper targets as far as possible.

The 6.8SPC? Entirely the opposite focus. The point was to improve power levels over the 5.56, which it does by 40%. The bullet diameter chosen to balance range over killing power, as a cartridge entirely purposed to kill live targets. All because of the 14.5" barrel and the loss of power 5.56 suffered getting almost 6" of velocity and power cut off.

While plenty of bullet makers offer designs, ammunition manufacturers have been offering ten times the number of differently loaded hunting cartridges in 6.8 compared to 6.5. Hunters are the marketing target, and hunters are using the cartridge in hunting AR's, shooting 6.8SPC from 16" barrels in the field at game and feral animals. That means 50 to 450m shots at live game - and BC is not a prime contributor to lethality. It's foot pounds of force, and the 6.8 does a better job of absorbing force with it's larger diameter, and can do so in shorter barrels with faster burning powders.

It's entirely up to the shooter to determine which will do better for their use, but overstating the actual ballistics of one because of an emotional preference isn't really empirically based science. BC is a mathematical factor, an artificial number based on computations to use as a corrective tool to make ballistic expressions adhere more accurately to reality. No doubt the streamlined shape of the bullet loses less energy and retains it further. But, that doesn't happen unless it travels a longer distance to do so. Most hunters don't shoot long distance - it's not rocket science that has kept the .30-30 Winchester the most popular hunting cartridge over the last 100 years. It's effective range is about 250m. Hunters made that happen.

SAMMI acceptance for the 6.5G is actually a moot point. It didn't need it up to now, and 6.8SPC didn't either, as much of it's growth can be directly attributed to NOT being SAMMI, but SPCII. That designation is what comprises 90%+ of the 6.8 market - 1 in 11 or slower twist, 5 or less lands, at least .045 more leade. As many precision shooters will point out, more leade is not the optimum way to improve accuracy, but the 6.8 still does shoot so. That's because so much of the ammunition is premium hunting loads, not cheap import fodder specifically made to meet a price point. You get what you pay for - and serious competitive users won't show up with Wolf steel to earn a place on the podium. Which means the calls to have it are really for those who place little premium on the combination being accurate. They just want cheap ammo like the 5.56.

Apparently, it's just one superiority complex after another. What's that got to do with being the better long range cartridge? That's where most of the debate about the cartridges' differences - slight that they really are - become testosterone laced posturing about inherent morality or ethical superiority. Not really - the ballistic curve of performance either matches the needed task, or it doesn't.

It's NOT X.x vs. Y.y, it's about choosing the specific tool for the job.
 
Oh no, this again!!!

"slappy", check out the thread mentioned by "blacksky" and other similar threads.

In spite of the bad press various 6.5mm cartridges have gotten for as long as I can remember, after doing my own original research, I have become a huge fan of the 6.5mm/26 calibers.

As usual, the media, in this case the "gun media" has gotten it all wrong.

As usual, "tirod" is spreading his wanna-be internet expert BS.

Don't have any experience with the Grendel you are talking about but I do have a 16" and 24" Grendel plus 2 more Grendels "building". After these 2 Grendels my next project is going to be a .260R upper for my Rock River Arms LAR-8 (AR-10 "type" rifle) to go along with my Savage Custom Shop rifle in .260R.


"I am considering this route but undecided between that and 6.8SPC."

Although the 6.8 SPC is a good cartridge and does do what it was designed to do, for me there really is no choice.

Using the SAME UNBIASED source, at the muzzle the 6.8 has a VERY SLIGHT advantage. By just 100 yards the Grendel has a VERY SLIGHT advantage. The Grendel does this with the SHORTER 14.5" barrel and NOT with the longer barrel the wanna-be experts claim are needed for the 6.5 Grendel.

At every range past 100 yards the Grendels looks better and better and the 6.8 falls further behind. At long ranges the 6.5G is SO SUPERIOR that the 6.8 is a joke!!!

Instead of the 6.5 Grendel being a "long range" cartridge and the 6.8 being a "CQB" cartridge, even with a SHORTER barrel the Grendel is an ALL RANGE cartridge.

For me and my uses, why choose the "single use" 6.8 when the 6.5 Grendel can "do it all"?


"Again, define the effective ranges and what target, then choose the cartridge that fits best."

Why do that when the 2 cartridges are a virtual tie for "CQB" and the Grendel is FAR SUPERIOR for everything else.


"If 6.8 or 6.5 is preferred, sighted in at the same distance, they both will hit the same paper plate."

Not necessarily, the Grendel appears to be capable of groups half the size of the 6.8.


"The trajectories aren't that dissimilar, despite the fanboy talk."

Come on "tirod", how many times do we have to go through this? As usual you are WRONG! Although the 6.5 and 6.8 may have similar trajectories out to 300-400 yards, this is true of many cartridges. It is beyond these ranges where the 6.5mm cartridges really starts to "show its stuff", where its far superior BC bullets show their advantage.


"They are literally more alike than different..."

At the muzzle and behind the trigger, this is true, I can't tell the difference if I am shooting a 6.5G or 6.8 SPC. What you continue to fail to understand is that it is far in front of the muzzle where the Grendel has ALL advantages.


"...simply because they are both forced to conform to the overall loaded length compatible with AR15 magazines, and the overall maximum effective diameter of the AR15 bolt face."

And, within the limitations you stated, the 6.5 Grendel is simply a superior "fit"


"Given the span of cartridges available from the .177 Bee to .50 BMG, it's overstating things by a large factor to suggest one is twice as accurate or flatter shooting. Not by a long shot."

"tirod", again, you just don't seem to be able to comprehend what kind of advantage a high SD offers no matter how many times we go through this. Talk about a "fanboy", you just can't face the FACTS of the matter.


"While plenty of bullet makers offer designs, ammunition manufacturers have been offering ten times the number of differently loaded hunting cartridges in 6.8 compared to 6.5."

Since close to 97-99% of what I shoot and 90% of what others shoot at the range I go to are reloads, having FAR MORE bullets to choose from is FAR MORE important than how many factory loads are available.

Have you ever done a search of hunting loads available for the 6.5 Grendel? No? I didn't think so! As usual you are just picking this number out of (let's be nice) "thin air".


"Hunters are the marketing target, and hunters are using the cartridge in hunting AR's, shooting 6.8 SPC from 16" barrels in the field at game and feral animals."

No different from the 6.5 Grendel except it is being used out of 16", 20", 24", etc. barrels.


"That means 50 to 450m shots at live game..."

I've never shot anything beyond maybe 250 yards, I'm sure those with far more experience at hunting game would strongly disagree with you. Check your ballistics, the 6.8 is fairly anemic beyond 400 yards.


"...and BC is not a prime contributor to lethality."

You don't have a clue about BC do you?


"It's foot pounds of force, and the 6.8 does a better job of absorbing force with it's larger diameter..."

Yes, the 6.8 does have a SLIGHTLY larger diameter but you conveniently don't mention the other factors that the 6.8 lacks compared to the 6.5G. Have you ever heard of penetration? How about SD? Do you have a clue how these factors work?


"...and can do so in shorter barrels with faster burning powders."

Check your facts. Using the SAME, UNBIASED source, the Grendel from a SHORTER (14.5") barrel virtually ties the 6.8 from a longer (16") barrel. What little advantage the 6.8 has at the muzzle is lost by 75 yards.


"...but overstating the actual ballistics of one because of an emotional preference isn't really empirically based science."

Then WHY are YOU a 6.8 fanboy and continue to ignore FACTS?


"BC is a mathematical factor, an artificial number..."

Nothing artificial about it, it correctly shows PHYSICAL LAWS.


"No doubt the streamlined shape of the bullet loses less energy and retains it further. But, that doesn't happen unless it travels a longer distance to do so."

As usual, wrong again, BC (and physical laws) take effect the instant the bullet leaves the muzzle. In the case of the 6.5G vs. the 6.8 SPC the higher BC of the 6.5mm bullets causes the 6.8 to loose its only real advantage (muzzle velocity) at just 75 yards. By 100 yards the same MV advantage goes to the 6.5G. EVERY single foot traveled gives the 6.5G more and more of an advantage.


"...it's not rocket science that has kept the .30-30 Winchester the most popular hunting cartridge over the last 100 years."

Likely just more internet BS. Although surely in the top 5 or 10 hunting cartridges, it is highly unlikely the .30-30 is "the most popular. I know based on dies sales, it is NOT.


"SAMMI acceptance..."

At least get something correct, it is the SAAMI.

T.
 
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Long winded "Tirade" AGAIN!

"Again, define the effective ranges and what target, then choose the cartridge that fits best."

Once again you set the tone. Just suppose somebody is looking for a more "all around" or "versatile" or "broader spectrum" choice between the two?
Historically you present as the biggest "fanboys" (6.8)out here. You can appear soooo articulate on the surface, but then you expound so much on your theorum that it eventually becomes over-objective to the point of peripheral ramblings...

Face it...on this topic you were, are, and always will be...OWNED!!!!:eek:
 
Using the SAME UNBIASED source, at the muzzle the 6.8 has a VERY SLIGHT advantage. By just 100 yards the Grendel has a VERY SLIGHT advantage. The Grendel does this with the SHORTER 14.5" barrel and NOT with the longer barrel the wanna-be experts claim are needed for the 6.5 Grendel.
Click to expand...

I am guessing you have some kind of beef with tirod, although I don't know why. Your post was a little insulting and antagonistic in nature.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table.htm

Weird happenings though. Is this the source you used? This chart show that 6.5 120gr BT has 100 more energy than 120 gr 6.8 at the barrel, even though the 6.8 is traveling faster. Doing my own math I come up with wildly different (and more correct) numbers than Chuck Hawkes for the 6.5 Grendel with it being revised downward significantly. It appears as though maybe they mixed up the Velocity and energy tables for the Grendel. Inside 300 meters the 6.8 maintains the edge in that and many other loadings. I certainly would not call them a "Virtual tie".

With different lighter loading the 6.5 can keep sailing much flatter much farther out than the 6.8 however. Therefore tirod is quite correct that it comes down to application. For longer range shooting of a lighter bullet the 6.5 is maybe better, for closer in work with a heavier bullet the 6.8 is maybe better. I say maybe because it comes down to application. If all you are planning on doing is punching tight groups on to paper the 6.5 might be better, maybe. There is a lot more to accuracy than the round itself.

Check your ballistics, the 6.8 is fairly aneimic beyond 300 yards.
Click to expand...

I think you mean "anemic"? Although I am unsure what your definition of that, based upon the usage. If you are implying that you can't take a large animal at 300+ yards with a 6.8 you are simply wrong. At 600 meters the drop becomes unsuitable for most applications. So it is with many rifle rounds.
 
For an Upper you should consider the RRA Predator Pursuit, Coyote or the ATH. Those are chrome barrel and very good accuracy (they give 3/4 MOA guaranteed if shipped as a complete rifle (their Chromed two stage match trigger is most excellent as well at a good price).

As for the difference between the 6.8 and the 6.5.

the 6.5 does everything the 6.8 does, except it does it continues our further with it. Close in there is not any real world difference (i.e. effectiveness)

6.5 is not a prissy bench loaders cartridge, though it started out as a bench rest. Its inherently more accurate at all ranges.

Keep it under 600 and a bit less accuracy the 6.8 is fine. Want better accuracy and or out to longer distances, the 6.5.

Effectiveness its like the 9mm to 45 pistol wars. Put ALL the statistics in a barrel and it makes no difference caliber wise. the only thing that will guaranteed a fight stopping shot is 20mm canon or bigger that simply removes an arm/leg/head or makes such a big hole that the bucket empties immediately.
 
Let me chime in just a little here. When reading this please try to remember that I own and shoot BOTH the 6.5 and the 6.8.

If 6.8 or 6.5 is preferred, sighted in at the same distance, they both will hit the same paper plate. The trajectories aren't that dissimilar, despite the fanboy talk.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Well, it is true to a point. If I sight in my .22lr rifle to the same distance as my 6.5 Grendel then yes it will hit the same paper plate. Unless (and this applies to the 6.8 as well) wind grabs my .22 bullet and yanks it ten yards to either side.

You can get the trajectories to be pretty close out to 300 yards if you use a lighter bullet being shot at much higher velocities, but much past that and the Grendel will pull ahead. Way up close you could probably even get a little flatter trajectory with the 6.8. The point I am trying to make is that the advantage that BC bullets give is not just one of distance and drop. Wind plays a HUGE role in shooting as well.

Despite what Tirod has researched, I have found that actual use on animals is so similar at close range (100 yards or so) using comparable bullets (6.5 100 grain TTSX and 6.8 95 grain TTSX) that it won't really matter what you pick if your intended use is for hunting. However, I will be bringing my 6.8 along on most of my hunts because I built it specifically to be lighter. The 6.5 is just as good of an animal killer as the 6.8 is. Though I will also concede that there are currently more affordable options for a lightweight 6.8 than there are for a 6.5.

In conclusion -if you like .264 bullets then the 6.5 Grendel is TONS better than the 6.8. If you like .277 bullets then the 6.8 SPC II is TONS better than the 6.5. Or if you don't really care then get the one that you want and you will be happy with it. I have yet to find someone who owned either caliber to say that it was completely worthless. Sure, from time to time people will switch or try another, but I think that has more to do with finding the correct configuration of the rifle than it does with performance.

Lastly, the 6.8 has recently had the Hornady 120 SST introduced at about the same time that AA 2200 became available again. That bullet and powder combo offers the 6.8 guys a chance to try out their hand at longer range shooting. That said, the bullet doesn't quite match the BC of some of the better 6.5 bullets but it will get really close to 1000 yards.
 
Along with the below, I believe I have mistaken information.

I am on a modem and still looking, but it looks like RRA offers a 6.8, but not 6.5. Drats. While they are willing to do non advertised changes, I don't think a 6.5 if they do not offer one is one of those!

Not sure you can even get a 6.8 upper by itself. You can ask and RRA seems to accomodate that kind of stuff, but thats a guess now. Shame, its a great lineup.


TimW77 pointed out to me in a PM (nicely done) that I had CHROME for the RRA barrels on the Predator Pursuit, Coyote and ATH.

In fact, those barrels are STAINLESS!

I stand corrected and feel that this is the way to correct that error rather than edit the posting.

I do appreciate the PM, and I also think most times its best to publicly acknowledge and correct the error. Not a minor one in this case even if unintentional brain zark.

RRA is willing to do some interesting changes as well. ATH is an 18 inch and I was able to get a 16 inch (that suited what I wanted better, in most cases the 18 inch would likely be preferred for this type of rifle).

Complete rifles are very nice, options for Chrome Bolt Group has been free. Gas staking was well done (contrary to internet reports).

You can get the stainless barrel bead blasted so its not a bright shiny stainless.
 
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Bushmaster sells a 6.8 complete upper, not sure if you were referring to RRA or from anywhere. I have seen them onsale for around $450.
 
Tirod-
If 6.8 or 6.5 is preferred, sighted in at the same distance, they both will hit the same paper plate. The trajectories aren't that dissimilar, despite the fanboy talk.
Click to expand...
Longdayjake-
This is not true. Well, it is true to a point. If I sight in my .22lr rifle to the same distance as my 6.5 Grendel then yes it will hit the same paper plate. Unless (and this applies to the 6.8 as well) wind grabs my .22 bullet and yanks it ten yards to either side.

You can get the trajectories to be pretty close out to 300 yards if you use a lighter bullet being shot at much higher velocities, but much past that and the Grendel will pull ahead. Way up close you could probably even get a little flatter trajectory with the 6.8.
Click to expand...

Actually, using the same length barrel and bullets designed for hunting, the 6.8 has a flatter trajectory out past the effective range of either caliber (where it drops below 1000 ft-lbs)

And yes, they are more similar than they are different. Which one is better depends on your intended use.

68-65_trajectory.jpg

68-65_energy.jpg



Parameters: 16" barrel, bullets that are designed for and capable of taking large game, zero distance optimized for each load using point blank range for a 6" kill zone from the table under misc.
Point Blank software is available at http://www.huntingnut.com/
Grendel Velocities are taken from http://www.alexanderarms.com/images/pdfs/grendel_ballistics.pdf
 
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