Consent to search as a condition of employment ?

H

Hal

New member
Is it legal for law enforcement to search a vehicle, without cause, on my employer's property?

I ask because our new "DrugFree Workplace" program, put together by the Ohio Bureau of Workman's Comp. lists searches with or without cause, by the employer, or Federal, State or Local law enforcement, as being possible.

Knowing my employer, I believe the tid bit is in there as something the lawyers require. The odds of it ever happening are as long as my odds of winning the lotter every week for a year. However, I see this as the spot where I would make a stand. NO one with a badge goes in my locked, and empty trunk without cause or a warrant.

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
I once applied for a job that had such a policy. I read it in the fine print on the application. It said something about giving them permission to the company to search bags, lockers, vehicles, and even my person. The most interesting part was there was nothing saying that the consent I would be giving would be limited to the workplace!!! I pointed this out to the human resources person there and informed her I would be crossing that out. I don't know if such policies are even legal. But I sure wasn't going to agree to it. Lockers and other such things are their property and they can do what they wish with those things. My bags, briefcase, pockets, and body cavities are my property and they have no business inspecting them. If it actually came to the point where I had some employer that mistrusted me enought to search me or my belongings, I probably shouldn't have been working in such a place anyway.
 
My wife ran into this when she worked in a nursing home as the accountant. The Administrator for some reason went on an anti-gun tirad with another employee and informed them and those around her she could have them and their personel effects searched. Then mentioned to my wife who was standing nearby that she could search cars too. My wife informed her you better have a search warrant and damned good lawyer. The admin. was taken aback that she was challenged, turned and went into her office. She lasted about 6 months before she got canned...
 
Pizza Hut has a policy like that-they can search delivery drivers vehicles.

My manager [back in '88] *heard* that I carried an M1 carbine in my truck on deliveries. He told me one evening he was going to have to search my vehiclethe next day. Gee-he found no firearm the next day either. ;) He told me he now had to make sporadic inspections to my vehicle and he would let me know the night before an inspection in case I needed to clean out the truck for eaisier 'look-see'. :P
 
Once met a fellow who worked for a major oil company, on off-shore drilling rigs. He said his company had such a policy, and even used dogs. These dogs would be used to check employee vehicles on their lot for drugs, gunpowder / guns, etc.

If it were me, I'd find another place to park. When I work for / with someone, their ability to make me defenseless is not part of the deal.

Regards from AZ
 
I work for a telecommunications company, and our office building has one of those handgun-in-a-circle-with-the-line-through-it signs on the doors. No Firearms Allowed, or as I told my boss, Mass Murderer Protection Zone. It's a Canadian company, and the corporate policy extends to all facilities world-wide. Of course, Texas' CCW law states that your weapon must be concealed at all times...

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The gun you surrender will be melted down to form the chains you will wear from then on.
 
"My manager [back in '88] *heard* that I carried an M1 carbine in my truck on deliveries."

The owner of my favorite pizza place virtually (almost) requires his drivers to go armed. Of course, the owner is the County Libertarian Party Chair. :)

Rick
 
Although I obey the laws of my country, state, city and employer and have nothing to hide; woe be it on the poor SOB rent-a-cop who I should happen to interrupt "searching" my vehicle. I would have to conclude that they were trying to rob me of the coaching equipment I keep in my car and I would be forced to act accordingly.
 
Since you were informed that your vehicle might be searched and you consented by reading the rules of employment, if you
use force against security, you would be happily arrested.

Or depending on the force level you attempted, the security officer might simply shoot you dead. Oops.

Rhetoric on the Internet - ah.

[This message has been edited by EnochGale (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
Perhaps I wasn't clear on the entire matter. This isn't a company policy, this is the policy that OBWC has mandated as part of a "Drug Free Workplace" program. I know the owner/President of the Company well enough to know that this part of the mandate wasn't his doing. The State of Ohio's BWC, has set these guidelines, not my employer. I talked to my immediate supervisor, and he agrees that in order to comply, the company has been coereced by the OBWC to publish this. Mostly everone agrees, this would not stand up in court. That raises another point. If it won't stand up in court, why bother to say it? Sounds a bit like extortion to me.

Enoch,
FWIW, I DO have the option to refuse a search. It means immediate termination of employment though. Believe me, I have no desire to be a martyr, so I believe it wouldn't come down to a shooting matter, or even a violent confrontation. If it DOES come to something other than my refusal, followed by my exit of the property, it won't be of my doing.

Again, my biggest bi*ch about this. Someone with a badge searching my locked trunk. It my be OK as a point of law, but it is a clear end run of the BOR.
 
Wasn't talking to you, RAE but TAZ, sorry for not being clear.

He said:

I would have to conclude that they were trying to rob me of the coaching equipment I keep in my car and I would be forced to act accordingly.

Yes, I agree that I would not consent to a search of my car or person. I would quit.

Can they search your desk and locker? I think they can under the law. I'd get another job or train for another so I could leave if I really needed this one for awhile.

***

I think that was unwise as to use force as implied, you have to know that a crime was in progress.

[This message has been edited by EnochGale (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
You can quit all the jobs you want but the fact is we are losing our rights more and more all the time. I work in a hospital and we also perform and have to be subjected to drug tests. You may think that you have rights and you may know people that "sued" because of an infringement but I know many more that have lost their jobs and more because workplaces can interpret the tests anyway they want. A small company does not even have to use a certified lab!
The sad part is a persons job performance is all that should count, yet more and more states are required to snoop on employees "for their own good" and companies are punished if they don't conform.
 
Try working on a privately owned nuclear power plant. You basically give up all your rights while on the property.
 
Add to the list of employers that can/do search are law enforcement agencies. The administrations can order a search of my vehicle, desk, locker, duffel bags, etc. Also I have seen them going to officers homes to do searchs due to the officer's conduct. They are usually coming to take your firearms. One officer I knew of moved his firearms to his fathers house because he knew a search of his home to take his firearms was coming sooner or later. What this particular officer was in trouble for was off-duty conduct that was not violent, mental, etc. I never could figure out how they justified going to his house to take his guns.
 
My employer buys my time, and my talent. He does not lay claim to my person, be it blood, urine, semen, hair, ect... He does not lay claim to my property be it car, house, clothes, contents of my pockets, or anything else.
I would however grant a locker search, desk search and any search of HIS property that I am using. Needless to say, I don't usually have anything worth searching anyway.
 
The nice thing about teaching school in Georgia is that school employees may legally have guns in their cars but they must be "in a locked compartment" followed by more legal terms. Students are not afforded the same protection. For the record, I don't have a gun in my car. I live extremely close to school so I have never considered keeping one in my car. (It's not a holster!) I just wanted to let everyone know there are pro-gun states who look out for the welfare and protection of their state employees.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnochGale:
Since you were informed that your vehicle might be searched and you consented by reading the rules of employment, if you
use force against security, you would be happily arrested.

Or depending on the force level you attempted, the security officer might simply shoot you dead. Oops.

Rhetoric on the Internet - ah.
[/quote]

I never stated that I would try to harm the poor SOB in question. You are the one implying the illegitimate use of force. I would not use force unless it was called for i.e. being threatened with force. I am not a firm believer in using force to defend insured property. I would have him arrested by REAL cops, sue him/his department/my employer for any damage to my private property. Quite possibly sue for slander/libel/planting of evidence... or anything else my lawyer cares to come up with. "Interrupting" a search means that I was not notified of the search and was not present during it. I was never notified of random, unwitnessed breaking and entering. For that matter I never consented to any form of search, except THEIR property. If ever notified of car searches with or without my oversight I will begin to look for a new job while parking off campus

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
Just a quick question about all this . It is my understanding that a court order is needed to look into a locked container , brief case etc. in your vehicle . If you fail to comply you could lose your job BUT!!! I don't see a judge granting an order because the company wants it . Unless an officer of the court can give convincing evidence that a CRIME has been commited the judge will tell the company to do what it must but cannot force you to open the item for inspection .
Ooooooooon the other hand if people refuse to work for these companies the Anti's will . These companies are being PC so you must act accordingly . Treat it as if the company says that if hired you will clean all the toilets one day a month . You will either comply or not .

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
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