Congress special hearings

Loud1

Inactive
Watched some of the special hearings on Gun Control on c-span yesterday. The Democrats are hanging their hats on the Miller case. Though very well spoken, Lott and LaPerriere(sp) did not have a good rebuttal to the congressman (I forget his name)against the Miller case. It was brought up that the case refers to the 2cnd as giving the state the right to bear arms, not an individual. I thought we had supreme court cases that held the opinion that the 2cnd was an individual right. Laperriere mentioned the federal case in Texas but that was it.
any thoughts on a good rebuttal to the Miller case?
Lou
 
Well, I thought Lott handled himself well, but LaPierre really frustrated me. If you watched the hearings, you doubtless saw the Democratic congresswoman ask him, "Here's this list of laws. [Don't recall all of them, except that one was "one gun a month".] The NRA opposed all of them. Why?" Wayne then launched into a description of project Exile. She interupted him, and asked the question again. He RETURNED to his description of project Exile. She interupted him again, and asked him to answer the question she'd asked. He said, basically, "You want me to go down the list, one by one, and explain why the NRA opposed those bills?" "Yes" she replied. He was launching back into his project Exile spiel yet again, and time ran out. As did my patience!

Is Wayne really so dense as he appears sometimes? Does he really not understand that, if someone asks you to defend your position, and you refuse to do so, people conclude that your position is indefensible?
Why couldn't he have just said, "Madame, our reason for opposing all those bills was essentially the same, so I'll address "One gun a month": You wouldn't think to tell a citizen that they could only attend church once a month, would you? Or that they could only buy one newspaper a month? Or call your office and express their opinion once a month? No, you wouldn't, because those are civil rights, and we don't ration civil rights in this country. Well, buying a gun is a civil right, too. It's guaranteed by the constitutions of 44 of the fifty states, and by the federal Constitution YOU'VE sworn an oath to uphold. I can go to the records of this very body, and demonstrate that the 14th amendment was adopted to protect the right of YOUR ancestors to own guns, in order that they could defend themselves against the KKK. That's why we opposed those bills, madam; The NRA is a civil rights organization, and those bills violated the right of Americans to keep and bear arms."
 
Yea, I too am starting to get pretty discouraged by the NRA's lack of real definition of the situation when confronted. Although discouraged and not very happy with the current "comprimise" manner we are moving towards, I will still continue to back the NRA and GOA to the best of my ability. However, I beieve that we are very close to that "Line in the Sand" between comprimise and NO MORE COMPRIMISE.

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To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state.
 
Loud 1....

Read this:
www.2ndamendment.net/2amd4.html

"United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 86 S.Ct. 816 (1939) lends considerable
support to the proposition that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right
to keep and bear arms. However, through selective quotation numerous appellate
courts have cited Miller as authority for their claim that the Second Amendment
guarantees only a collective right of States to maintain militias."

The reason Miller is bad law and will be overturned when the Court hears another 2nd A has to do with faulty findings. The Court merely found that a sawed off shotgun was not part of the military arsenal, therefore, a weapon not protected by the 2nd A. Thats all. The Court further admitted that they were not experts and that they could be wrong....and they were.


*******
Miller is totally confusing and lends itself to all sorts of interpretation.
In its literal sense it basically says, if the military doesn't have it, you can't have it. It in itself in no way denies the individual 2nd A rights, in fact it upholds them. But it is the first Federal law to infringe on 2ndA by selectively picking a type of firearm and saying "this gun is not protected by the 2ndA".


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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"



[This message has been edited by DC (edited May 28, 1999).]
 
My patience with the NRA ran out long ago. Lapierre would not have been my choice to speak at those hearings. The NRA has better representatives that get lost in the shuffle and push for the spotlight...

Hell, I think DC would've done a better job.

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-Essayons
 
I too spent a lot of time watching C-span yesterday. A rare day off from work for me. LaPierre was pathetic. The father who had two children shot a Columbine was by far the best speaker. He said "the guns weren't responsible, the NRA wasn't responsible, what was in their hearts(killers)was". He also spoke about how the very first act of recorded violence was when Cane slew Able, the bible didn't blame the club or the 'National Club Association'. This man, I believe, lost a daughter and had his son wounded. He doesn't own a gun and has never been a member of the NRA. This guy took time to go to D.C. and speak his mind while still grieving over the loss of his daughter, wow. Makes me proud.

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land of the free and the home of the brave......WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT
 
he did show quite well, didn't he.i don't think his reaction was what many expected.
( the gentleman from columbine)

re: miller, that was the us atty's fault. the did not ask, even though they should have, if shotguns were mil-issue. if he had, would have found that us issued thousands of short barrel 12 ga. during ww1,as regular weapons, not just pow guards.
 
I have been a member of the NRA since around 1940, and a life member since 1967. However, I agree with the guys who say that since the election of Charlton Heston, they are turning to a "compromise" mentality. For that reason, I am supporting the GOA, and JFPO. When the NRA turns around, as they did in 1973 or 1974, then I will again support them. This "compromise" tatic was tried before, in the early '70s, and did not work. It will fail again.
 
I don't know how to link to the article or I would have done so--but here is an article about the "Columbine victim's dad say's NRA is a scapegoat".
http://insidedenver.com/shootings/0528scot2.shtml.

If some of the more computer savvy members would instruct those of us with limited skills as to how to link--I'll give it shot next time.

Thanks
 
I couldn't get the link to work, so I went to the Inside Denver Archives. They want $1.95 per article so I just copied the synopsis of each article I thought you might want to order:
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COLUMBINE VICTIM'S DAD SAYS NRA A SCAPEGOAT SLAIN GIRL'S FATHER SAYS ANSWER IS FAITH IN GOD; The father of a girl killed at Columbine High School said Thursday that more restrictive gun laws will not stop school shootings. The only answer, Darrell Scott told a congressional panel, lies in prayer, faith and the spirit of God. ``What...; Michael Romano; News Washington Bureau; 05-28-1999

DAD CUTS DOWN KILLERS' CROSSES MARKERS FOR COLUMBINE GUNMEN DON'T BELONG IN MEMORIAL, FATHER OF SLAIN STUDENT SAYS; The family of slain Columbine student Daniel Rohrbough on Friday destroyed two crosses that had been erected in memory of the boy's killers. ``I don't think any thinking person in this country is going to disagree with me,'' said Brian Rohrbou...; Lynn Bartels and Dina Bunn; News Staff Writers; 05-01-99

VICTIM'S DAD CALLS FOR TIGHTER GUN LAWS COLUMBINE SHOOTING PROMPTS FATHER TO JOIN BELL CAMPAIGN; Tom Mauser stood on the rain-dampened east steps of the Capitol on Tuesday to kick off Colorado's chapter of the Bell Campaign, a nationwide grass-roots movement seeking tougher gun laws. ``When people propose more gun regulation, others say ...; John Sanko; News Capitol Bureau; 05-26-1999

SHOOTING VICTIM'S DAD DIAGNOSED WITH HODGKIN'S DISEASE; Ten days after the Columbine High shootings, the father of a wounded student learned he had Hodgkin's disease. ``My initial thought was, `I don't have time to be sick,' '' said Rick Castaldo, 45, of Manassas, Va. His son, Richard Castaldo...; Tillie Fong; News Staff Writer; 05-27-1999
 
Thanks for the link DC. Sorry I took so long to reply, I've been under the weather with all this pollen floating around. I also thought the Dad from Columbine was great. In his grief he sees through the bull, and speaks the truth. It's the criminals stupid!!!
Lou
 
I agree with Rob. DC, Brett and several other members here would be much better spokespersons for Americas gun owners. It would have been interesting, to say the least, to hear how the congresswoman would have responded to Bretts answer.

The slain students father is to be commended. He, of all people, could be exspected to react hysterically. Yet he remains rational. Image him as a guest on the Rosie show.

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Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.




[This message has been edited by Gunslinger (edited June 05, 1999).]
 
Shotgun. Regarding the NRA's going toward a compromising attitude. Ponder this point:
They compromised in 1934 (NFA 34)
They compromised in 1968 (GCA 68)
They compromised in 1986 (FOPA 86)
They compromised in 1994 (Assault weapons
ban)

They've been compromising for years.
I too am a life member. I wrote them that as long as they continued to compromise our rights away, I would no longer support them financially. I told them that "COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!" Something I have been signing off on my post since sending them that letter.
Paul B.
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
 
La Pierre must go !!!! he is one of them , I firmly believe.... he has sold out !!!

We have a huge body of evidence and the Constitution on our side and its high time that we acted like it, instead of like a bunch of namby pamby do gooders....

Actions have consequences and people whose actions are wrong need to pay the full penalty for them !

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What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?
 
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