Congress passes $800 billion debt limit hike

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Congress passes $800 billion debt limit hike
Party-line vote sends measure to Bush for signature
Friday, November 19, 2004 Posted: 12:27 AM EST (0527 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress sent President Bush an $800 billion boost in the federal borrowing limit on Thursday, spotlighting how the budget has lurched out of control in recent years and how hard it will be to afford future initiatives.

The House approved the measure by a near party-line 208-204 vote as White House and bipartisan congressional bargainers moved to the verge of agreement on a year-end spending package expected to total $388 billion. Negotiators said just a handful of issues remained unresolved, and a package might be ready for votes by late Friday.

With the government facing imminent default because it has depleted its authority to borrow money, the debt limit bill would pump up the federal borrowing cap to $8.18 trillion. That is 70 percent the size of the entire U.S. economy, and more than $2.4 trillion higher than the debt Bush inherited upon taking office in 2001.

"The president commends the Congress for passing the debt limit increase," the White House said in a written statement that did not mention the magnitude of borrowing involved or its causes. "Passage of this legislation was important to protect the full faith and credit of the United States."

In an effort to reassure the financial markets that federal borrowing would be unimpeded, the statement said Bush would sign the legislation by next Monday.

Republicans said they were being responsible because the increased borrowing will let the government pay Social Security benefits and its other bills. They blamed Democratic spending for the problem, and accused them of playing politics by opposing the measure.

"Let's not use our elderly as political pawns in trade for a seven-second sound bite back home," said Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas.

Democrats said the red ink was due to GOP tax cuts and their refusal to require budget savings to pay for tax reductions or spending increases. They accused Republicans of passing the buck to future generations.

"I want someone to explain to me how it can be moral for a father to stick his kids with his bills," said Rep. Gene Taylor, D-Mississippi.

Lawmakers hope to end their postelection session, which began Tuesday, by passing both the spending and debt-limit measures and possibly an intelligence agency overhaul by this weekend.

Negotiators spent Thursday clearing away final disputes on the massive spending bill. They agreed to $577 million, the same as last year, to continue developing a nuclear waste storage site at Yucca Mountain in Nevada, one lawmaker said.

Remaining problems included an effort by some legislators to curb Bush's plan to contract out federal jobs to private businesses, as well as a plan to pay for some of the bill's increases by cutting unspent defense funds.

The bill would grant increases to such priorities as veterans' health care and the FBI and will probably contain thousands of home-district projects.

Hewing to Bush's demands to curb domestic spending, it also would cut grants for local water improvements and research supported by the National Science Foundation, while holding the federal subsidy for Amtrak to $1.2 billion, the same as this year.

Aid to help refugees in Sudan's war-torn Darfur province would be $404 million, including $93 million to be transferred from Iraq reconstruction money that is being spent at a snail's pace.

Spending-bill bargainers also sorted through a stack of policy changes that lawmakers and lobbyists were trying to shove into one of the last measures Congress will approve this year.

Congressional aides said they believed a milk subsidy extension sought by Midwesterners and an effort to repeal required country-of-origin labels for meat would not make the final bill. Also thwarted was a drive to ease rules designed to protect endangered species from pesticides, the aides said.

The spending measure, covering the government budget year that started Oct. 1, is an amalgamation of nine separate bills financing all federal agencies except the Pentagon and the Homeland Security Department.

The GOP-led Senate approved the debt limit increase on Wednesday, 52-44, almost strictly along party lines.

The fight over raising the debt limit has become a staple of the Bush years, which will have now seen three such increases and two consecutive record annual deficits.

The government reached the current $7.38 trillion cap last month, paying its bills since with investments from a civil service retirement account, which it plans to repay. Even so, Republican leaders postponed the showdown vote until after the election, realizing Democrats would use the issue to highlight the red ink of the Bush years.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/19/congress.spending.debt.ap/index.html

Won't be long before you can wipe your arse with $100 bills. Enjoying your descent into poverty America?
 
lies - damned lies -statistics

The National Dept issue falls into the last catagory.

Decent into poverty?

Honestly, I never left "poverty" in close to 45 years of "working for a living" (I'm amost 53, and yes - I got my first "real job" @ age 8 and have been working mostly all those years in between).

Working in the *real world* circa 1970 - fresh out of high school - I made $2something an hour - 34(5) years later, I make $23something an hour.
Bigie whoop - everything is almost 10 times more today than it was circa 1970.

Don't let the big numbers cloud the issue.

The Dems and the Reps go out for *dinner* @ Texas Longhorn. The Dems order up all the most expensive *things* on the menu, and rounds of *drinks* for everyone..then stick the Reps with the tab.

Edit - by me -
Actually, the above isn't fair, because the next *week at Red Lobster* (administration change) the roles are reversed. The Reps order and stick the Dems.
 
Honestly, I never left "poverty" in close to 45 years of "working for a living" (I'm amost 53, and yes - I got my first "real job" @ age 8 and have been working mostly all those years in between).

Working in the *real world* circa 1970 - fresh out of high school - I made $2something an hour - 34(5) years later, I make $23something an hour.
Bigie whoop - everything is almost 10 times more today than it was circa 1970.

Don't let the big numbers cloud the issue.

The big numbers are the issue.

I believe the more the dollar loses its value, the more people will begin to understand that the Federal Reserve is printing monopoly money.
 
I believe the more the dollar loses its value, the more people will begin to understand that the Federal Reserve is printing monopoly money.
It always has. The value of the dollar, or any other paper money, is based on belief, so...

And before someone brings up the gold standard, its value is based on belief as well.
 
Exactly. But the thing is we can't print more gold. NOW when the government spends too much money, (which is every year now) it just prints more. This has been going on at excessive rates for quite some time now. Inflation increases and the dollar continues to lose its value...all so that they can keep spending for their social programs and military conquests and in turn social programs in Afghanistan and all the other countries. It will gradually bring us all under serfdom.

It's amazing how the arguement has shifted from reducing the debt to "reducing the deficit". In other words reducing the amount of money that the government overspends every year.
 
In other words reducing the amount of money that the government overspends every year.
Partly...
The worst part is the budget, and how they mislead people into thinking a budget surplus is real money.
 
I wish there were a way to mark "government may not use my tax money to pay off the national debt or interest on it" on personal tax returns.

Let the government default on some of its debt if that's what it takes to get them to start paying it off.
 
Actually the value of gold can be controlled - by supply. It can also be regulated by government.

But a gold based currency would be a bad idea for us, because we have no substantial source of gold. The europeans control the gold market; because they own the largest sources and can control supply.

Better for us would be a silver-backed currency. We have piles of silver and can produce it in quanitity. Lincoln started to issue silver-backed notes as opposed to further debt. He died, the silver notes stopped. Kennedy started to issue silver-backed currency. He died, and one of the first things to change again was a stop to silver-backed dollars.

The euro is climbing fast not only because it is gold based - and the europeans control the gold market - but countries are dropping the dollar as reserve currency. Saddam tried switching to the euro to sell oil, uh for awhile, and Iran among others might follow suit.

Plenty scoff at the idea that our wonderful socialist elite in Europa, aided by their ideological friends in our government, are going to pull the plug on us. A rude awakening is just over the horizon.
 
gold, silver, euro, exchange - bah!

While important, not the real issue. This ain't complicated, folks. Ross Perot had it right. The fedgov spends enornously more than it takes in (now it does). As a result, it borrows money. We the taxpayers fund the ongoing gov't, and the payback with interest on the notes that should have never been taken out, for the past years' govt. There is zero, zilch, nada reason that the fedgov with its incredibly high tax intake, should be borrowing money and sticking us with the interest on the payback. It's outrageous and ridiculous, the federal income tax rates/levels, at all levels of wealth/income. The fedgov should be and could be equally effective at its 8 limited enumerated jobs - scratch that, MORE effective, if it taxed at about 1/3 what it does, and spent at about 1/5th what it does (making the budget balance every year, so that no money is borrowed, and therefore no interest paid). The fedgov is like the family drunk/drug addict/gambling addict, and the legislators we now send to Congress and the POTUS are the person in the family who is the excuse-making enabler. Used to be the Dems were the enablers, now it's the Repubs. Just depends on the addiction of choice for the party in power - when it's the Defense Dept orgy of contractors, its the Repubs who tax and spend; when it's anything else, it's the Dems who tax and spend. It's out of control - the commerce clause MUST BE scaled back, which is why the current medpot case is so damned important to preserving state's rights, and limited the powers of the fedgov - the more their powers are restricted, the less they'll want to spend - although, I don't think anything can truly change without a balanced budget amendment.
 
You're right of course. But things would be easier all round if we cut out the private interest and profit in the issue and control of our currency, and it's value were controlled by Congress; which just happens to be a USC mandate.
 
According to David Walker, Comptroller of the US, actual Federal debt now and in the future is around $40 trillion and growing.
 
"Laurence Kotlikoff, an economist and research associate with the National Bureau of Economic Research, asked this question: If the United States collected all of the future revenue it anticipates receiving and matched that to its future obligations, would it be able to meet them? The answer was "no," to the tune of $45 trillion."

U.S. government debt jumping by trillions
Dallas Morning News
Apr. 11, 2004

... Yep; when the bubble bursts - it's going to really bust with a bang. When it happens, we can listen to more arguements about how "no one could have foreseen such a catastrophy". And we will all be expected to join the global plantation without any "complaining" and "blaming anyone" of course. ;)
 
What is the Federal Reserve?

No, it is not Federal.

AND

No, it is not a Reserve.

It answers to no one in either the Executive, the Legislative, nor the Judicial Branches.

It is the one thing Jefferson predicted would be the end of our democracy- a central, private bank.

It is just like the Matrix- a way of pulling the wool over the people's eyes. Congress borrows on our behalf and promises that we, the working people, will pay back the debt with interest.

SCARY!

Vanguard.45
 
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