Confused on chamber issues

M

monkey95

New member
I read and posted on mikechandlers thread but see that I am to new to revolvers so.....

With my used sp101(my first revolver) not only did I have issues with grouping(my fault), I had empties getting stuck in the chambers. Twice it required a screwdriver to remove the empties, I read about fouling being a problem so...

When I got home I cleaned it and now the rounds fall out without using the ejector rod(when turned upside down)...I am confused!


1. Does ammo in a revolver fall out of the cylinder without use of the ejector?

2. One of the chambers does not seem to "hold" in the round...when inverted it slides out when locked up(pics included). Is this normal?

I am comfortable with semi-autos but am totally new to revolvers and am not sure if I have a lemmon or if I am the issue.
 

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ill pitch in.

1. Yes and no. Hot just fired ammo usually doesn't fall out of a revolver the brass is expanded along with the heat from the cylinder keeps them in place until the ejector is depressed. Cold empties will fall out usually with out a problem unless the cylinders/cases are really dirty. why was it necessery to remove the empties with a screwdriver?! :confused: I'm sure the extractor star would work fine.

2. that is normal in every Ruger I have. you see how the frame is angled to 'push' the round back into the cylinder all the way before it can be fired.

At least your being honest about your concerns and unfamiliarity with revolvers.

here are a few more tips. DON'T flip your revolver open or closed. or spin the cylinder while you shut it. use your 'weak' hand to support it. this prevents strain on the crane.
 
"why was it necessery to remove the empties with a screwdriver?! I'm sure the extractor star would work fine."

In using the extractor a few times...I had to smack it to get the empties out. As for the screwdriver, twice after I used the ejector, one spent round was lodged in under the "extractor star", insert screwdriver.
 
If a .357 revolver has had a lot of 38 specials fired in it, fouling can build up in the chamber in front of the shorter 38 special brass. When a 357 shell is inserted, it gets into that fouling and when fired, it squishes into and gets stuck in the warmed goo.

That's why a thorough cleaning cured the problem for you and should be done often.

I don't own a single 38 special casing. All my brass is .357, even the ones loaded to 38 special (and lighter) power levels. Unlike semi-autos, a revolver's action does not depend on the power of the round to cycle the action.

Terminology correction: "When one of the cylinders..." You are talking about "one of the chambers" Your SP101 has only one cylinder. It has 5 chambers.

As strong as revolvers are, particularly Rugers, one of their major weak points is the crane (when it is open). If you have to use force to eject a round (either with a screwdriver, cleaning rod or the ejector star), be sure to have the CYLINDER firmly in hand and also not allow the frame of the revolver to flop around. If you bend the crane, your gun may be out of service until you get a new one, which will probably require a trip back to the factory. Flipping the cylinder close (or open) or having asymmetrical forces applied to it can do that in short order.

Congratulations of picking a fine revolver. Thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep
 
As if I did'nt feel stupid before...

I corrected my terminolgy mistake(thanks lost sheep, i actually knew that) however I do not know what the crane is...any info is appreciated but I will google to get info on my own.

Also I do not close, or open, the cylinder by flipping...good advice as it is widely practiced in movies.

I was also advised on not shutting the cylinder by pushing on it, but using the portion in front of the cylinder(maybe the crane?)... if that is the case how do you open the cylinder without pushing or flipping it?

I know these are raw questions..maybe I should stick with the semi autos, I am very comfortable with them. But I thought revolvers to be less complicated(not talking internals)

Thanks for the replies
 
The crane is the "swingarm" that pivots the cylinder out of the frame.

I've been closing the cylinder by "pushing" it into the cylinder window on DA revolvers since 1972.
I will continue to do so, I can't see any reason not to. Same with opening the cylinder.
Dunno the reasoning behind what you heard there.

Revolvers are essentially very simple, if you keep the chambers clean, don't spring the crane by flipping the cylinder closed, and learn to eject empties correctly.
Denis
 
Open and close the cylinder gently, but with authority

monkey95 said:
I was also advised on not shutting the cylinder by pushing on it, but using the portion in front of the cylinder(maybe the crane?)... if that is the case how do you open the cylinder without pushing or flipping it?
Click to expand...
I open and close my cylinder by pushing on the cylinder itself, but do not let (on opening) the cylinder's crane hit the stop hard. Usually I will press the thumb release with my right thumb, place my left palm on the trigger guard, my middle two fingers on the right side of the cylinder (pushing) and my left thumb on the left side of the cylinder (catching) and completely control how fast the cylinder moves, preventing any jarring.

I close pretty much the same way.

Ejecting the empties, I hold the cylinder with my left hand just as it came out when I opened it and steady the frame with the other available fingers and have my right hand free of the gun. I hold the gun so the barrel is pointed straight up, leaving the brass able to fall free of the gun by gravity. A sharp, controlled push on the ejector rod with my right hand ejects the empties with nearly zero chance of any of them getting stuck under the ejector star.

If reloading with my right hand, the gun is ready to accept. If I reload with my left hand, I transfer the gun to my right hand with my forefinger (coming through the frame opening from the right) and thumb controlling the position and rotation of the cylinder.

There are other effective drills to reload, but that one is mine.
monkey95 said:
I know these are raw questions..maybe I should stick with the semi autos, I am very comfortable with them. But I thought revolvers to be less complicated(not talking internals)
Click to expand...
Revolvers are less complicated in operation, but loading is a complete new drill.

But clearing of misfires involves hardly any thought at all. Just pull the trigger again and you have a complete new round in firing position, no "Tap-Rack-Bang" No stovepipe jams, no double feeds. Simple.

Lost Sheep

p.s. with my Dan Wesson revolver, the cylinder lockup was so tight that I had to actually hit the cylinder into place with the heel of my hand. But since the cylinder is supported by the frame and held in perfect alignment, there are no forces on the crane to bend anything.
 
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Dpris,

When I was first looking at revolvers a LGS counter guy(very good guy btw) "chastised" me for closing by pushing the cylinder, he said it could ruin the timing.

I just looked up "crane" and that is exactly what he said i needed to use to close the cylinder...hence the question about how to open it.

Again, I am new to revolvers and as counter intuitive as it may seem, just more comfortable with the semi autos.(again not the internals)

FWIW, and is probably appearant, I am not mechanicaly inclined!
 
"I open and close my cylinder by pushing on the cylinder itself, but do not let (on opening) the cylinder's crane hit the stop hard. Usually I will press the thumb release with my right thumb, place my left palm on the trigger guard, my middle two fingers on the right side of the cylinder (pushing) and my left thumb on the left side of the cylinder (catching) and completely control how fast the cylinder moves, preventing any jarring.

I close pretty much the same way." quoted lost sheep


This is how I was doing it...I was just quoting a LGS guy and thought I might be doing "bad".

Is there any issue with rotating the cylinder when closing? OK.. now I am starting to annoy myself...Me thinks this LGS guy got in my head and I dont like it!!

Shot this weekend and not happy with results...going again this weekend with head screwed on see what happens.



ETA..no "Tap-Rack-Bang"...lost sheep

one reasone i am comfortable with the semi's, actually deleted that from an earlier post
 
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monkey95 said:
When I was first looking at revolvers a LGS counter guy(very good guy btw) "chastised" me for closing by pushing the cylinder, he said it could ruin the timing.
Click to expand...
All due respect to your LGS counterman, I would seek a second opinion. There are four things that could possibly affect timing. Crane being true, cylinder stop (a.k.a. locking hand), the lugs on the ejector star and the advancing hand. Closing the cylinder firmly, still and symmetrically endangers none of those things. I suppose that closing by pushing only on the crane might be safer, but hardly the most efficient thing to do in a combat reload situation.

Many people THINK they know, (including me, I am not immune to being mistaken), but don't.

I am willing to be corrected if mistakes are proved.

Lost Sheep
 
"All due respect to your LGS counterman, I would seek a second opinion."...lost sheep

Thats why I am asking here, and honestly getting better info(I did not buy from this store) but was "craving" a new gun and the sp101 was calling me at a local pawn shop!

I must admit, although my first foray into revolvers is suspect, I am liking the "vibe".

I also appreciate all the help and advice from the TFL members.
 
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It's usually necessary to rotate or jiggle the cylinder at least slightly on closing to make sure it locks up in full bore/chamber alignment.

Your LGS guy was, as noted above, wrong, unless you were severely ham-handing that cylinder closed with excessive force or speed. I've never heard of the crane closing method, and I've taught revolver use as a police instructor as well as taken revolvers to various professional training "schools".

As an adjunct to those years of revolvering, whether you do it left or right handed, you remove empties by pointing the muzzle straight up & PUNCHING them out with the palm of one hand while supporting the gun & holding the cylinder fully open with the other. The older method of using the thumb to push on the ejector rod is nowhere near as positive.
If you can master that, and if you have grips that don't impede & catch a case, you shouldn't be getting any cases stuck under the extractor star.

Denis
 
With regard to closing the cylinder, I push gently on the cylinder. Some people say finish up with rotating the cylinder with the thumb to lock-up. This is done in the correct direction for the revolver: counterclockwise for Ruger and S&W and clockwise for Colt.

I think if one pushes on the crane, the drag by the central locking pin (probably not the correct name) on the recoil shield will cause a significant torque in the crane.
 
It's usually necessary to rotate or jiggle the cylinder at least slightly on closing to make sure it locks up in full bore/chamber alignment.
Click to expand...

Well, sorta. Even if it's not locked up upon closing, once you start pulling the trigger, the hand will push the cylinder to lock-up before firing. For über-fast reloads, then, jiggling is unnecessary & wastes time.

With regard to closing the cylinder, I push gently on the cylinder.
Click to expand...

I shoot a lot of IDPA with a revolver. I push on the cylinder, too, but there's nothing gentle about it. :D No jiggling, either. ;)
 
2. One of the chambers does not seem to "hold" in the round...when inverted it slides out when locked up(pics included). Is this normal?
Click to expand...

I would mark that chamber and watch to see if that is the one that is consistently loose or maybe just an ammo related issue. If it is looser than the rest maybe you should have a Smith look at it. Its always possible to find a B.O. gun at a pawn shop. Maybe a high pressure round was fired in that chamber and its distorted?
And if you are finding a case or round getting ahead of the extractor star and this problem chamber is associated you again need to have it checked. I can certainly see someone with a problem gun dumping it at a pawn shop. :rolleyes:
Another thing I would recommend is every time you unload or check a DA revolver's condition is to give the cylinder a easy spin. It will aid in spotting a missed cartridge.
 
I also would recommend that you do about 10 or more to 1 dry firing to live fire's. What I mean by that is to leave the spent cases in the cylinder after firing a round and dry fire your revolver in DA mode many many times.
I had a lady in my recent CC class that had never fired her revolver in DA and could not fire it. After just a few minuets of dry firing she started to get the drill down to where she could even hit the target.
I do not allow single action firing of DA revolvers on my range at CC qualifying.
 
Mr,
Maybe it's a touch of OCD, but I've made sure the cylinder was locked on DA and SA loading for over 40 years.
You're right in saying the action SHOULD engage & time up correctly once you pull the trigger on a DA or the hammer on an SA, but... :)
Denis
 
I think all firearm owners could use a little OCD, as long as it is a correct and safety oriented practices. Your
but I've made sure the cylinder was locked on DA and SA loading for over 40 years.
Click to expand...
practice is just and prudent. My Freedom Arms SA instruction manual instructs us to do just that and I also do the same with all my revolvers.
 
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