Confessions of An Englishman in Pa

Mike H

New member
Well, in view of some earlier lines of discussion, I thought my latest vacation (i.e. shooting trip) to the US may be of interest and perhaps amusement to some of you.

The wife and I decided to tour her home state of Pennsylvania, something she herself had never done. She knew that I would want to shoot, and I mean lots, and she stated a desire to learn to shoot handguns properly herself. For detailed opinions on the handguns we shot, see the Pistolcraft Forum.

I arranged for some private tuition via the net and telephone with Anthony Arms in West Mifflin, Pittsburgh. Our tutor turned out to be a local Deputy by the name of Bob Cherap (spelling ?). He turned out to be a really nice guy and was openly more concerned with teaching my wife than me, which was just fine. Wifey is a fast learner and passed his practical quiz in no time at all, she then progressed to a Ruger .22LR and promptly removed the 10 ring from an 8 yard target with about 30 rounds fired. Bob had a few strange notions however that I didn't question, the first was that a .22 LR round has, get this, 1350 foot pounds per second of energy, an interesting mix of the 2 main yardsticks of round evaluation, he explained that this meant the little round could move 1350 lbs by one foot. His second interesting assertion was that all Glocks had what is known as a New York trigger, I asked if he meant a 10lb trigger pull and he replied that the safe action trigger is also known as the New York trigger, to illustrate that there was no connecton between the New York reference and trigger pull weight he produced his new Glock 36 .45ACP single stack from his pants pocket, and, whilst ejecting a live round of 230 grain Hydrashock from the chamber explained that HIS Glock had a 3lb pull, I asked what kind of holster he had in his pocket and he replied simply "None". Needless to say I was glad that his weapon remained in plain view for the rest of the course. He did however get my wife interested in guns, and for that I owe him big time, her certificte stating successful completion of both the basic and concealed carry handgun courses is now a prized possession. From here we progressed to the Bullseye rental range near Greentree, Pittsburgh, where I was able to shoot pretty much the weapon of my choosing, if you are interested in my views see pistolcraft. Now, we planned to rent a cabin in the Cook Forest area of upstate Pa, and knowing it could be a little remote I suggested that we proceed with our plan to buy a low cost handgun for PD. We visited Bravermans in Pitts where my wife would not let go of a Sig P232 in .380ACP, it was indeed a very nice pistol and one that we both had shot well, but at $409.99 it was a little too elevated for our needs. The pleasant if somewhat reticent gunstore guy added that he was dumping all his S&W products and that they were all reduced to clear. As a result we (or legally my wife)became the proud owners of a S&W Model 22A .22LR with a 4" field barrel. This full size 10+1 pistol was ours for $180 along with a case and 2 mags, a thousand rounds of Remington brass plated hollow points were just $22 and with a $10 cleaning kit, we were good to go for just over 200 bucks. The NICS check took seconds, during which time the guy in the store strangely covered the earpiece of the phone with his shirt, why he just didn't walk further away from us is beyond me. The gun was a peach once broken in, and I became a surprised believer in the abilities of the .22LR round to cause severe damage to objects both animate and inanimate. The only trouble was, on arriving at our remote cabin, we were greeted by some overly familiar black bears which hung out close by. I became such a wuss about the prospects of becoming bear brunch that on one particluarly dark and foggy night, I would only retrieve extra logs from the wood pile if my wife covered me from the door in her nightgown with the Smith, not being sure which was the greater danger, bears or armed wife, I had her lock the slide back on a loaded mag rather than chamber a round, if old brar' did appear I told her to release the slide and cap one off into the air if he got too friendly, but under no circumstances open up on him as he would almost certainly be too busy skidding around in all the doo doo that I would be producing down my pants leg. Looking back sat here in my warm comfy Cheshire home, it's easy to laugh, but during our stay in that cabin, I was very, very glad to have that little .22 sat on my nightstand, the dangers proved to be elsewhere however as the cabin was burned down to the ground along with all our belongings, the result of a faulty refrigerator, goodbye Black Bear cabin #3, it was fun while it lasted. We did our range work at a great little outdoor public range just outside of Clarion, the town where an illegal deer hunter recently shot and killed a frat prankster dressed in a gorilla suit with a 30-30 because he thought it was Bigfoot. I had one embarassing incident when a guy wandered onto the range out of my line of sight to set up a target, only to have me open up with the .22 at a target on my side of the range, I accepted it was my fault and apologised profusely and just as I was suggesting that he holler over to me next time he wandered onto a hot range I noticed his State Trooper ball cap and police issue utility belt, gulp, fortunately he turned out to be an ok guy, even taking the time to show me his LEo only Ranger Talons in contrast to his tobacco chewing friend who was complete with stained chin and H&K USP9, and appeared to be muttering something like "can we kill him now Paw, hurr, hurr, hurr". I always enjoy my time in the US immensely, and you have much to be proud of, certainly more than we do, but I have to add my own honest impressions good and bad. You all work incredibly hard, and whatever job I observed someone carrying out, even if it was in a launderette, they were diligent in the extreme, it also seemed as though every person we met, even the 50 year olds in WalMart, were doing a school course of some kind, congratulations, but the hell with that, it makes me feel horribly lazy and inadequate. The bad parts, well just a couple and not entirely PC I'm afraid, but honest and with no axe to grind, the towns in Pa seemed to consist of the following, a Dairy Queen, 2 burger joints out of the big 3, a Pizza Hut, KFC an Arby's and 2 motels called Super 8 and something I can't remember now, there was no REAL town as such which is quite sad really. Secondly, the number of grossly overweight people was worrying, some were just teenagers and must have weighed well over 200 lbs, slim people were few and far between, and finally, dare I say it, we both encountered rudeness and even open hostility when we were being attended to by black people, either in diners, motels or at the airport where all the security staff appeared to be African Americans. I was left wondering if it was me just not being used to your ways, perhaps we English are just too touchy these days. In summary all I can say is GO USA, we're coming back real soon. Apologies for a) any offence caused and b) boring ramblings, I felt a need to share.

Regards,

Mike H
 
Glad you had a good time, and sorry for your fire mishap.

As to the findings in PA, I found much of PA (in the 2 1/2 years I spent there) to be sorta, well, "inbred" I guess. Kinda like West Virginia, but not as bad.

As to rudeness by some blacks, I agree that it's a problem (just as the reverse is true). But the main difference is that when a black is rude/offensive to a white, you're not allowed to comment on it. To do so makes you a racist (your bad).

And anyone that carries a pistol in a pants pocket w/o a holster is an idiot.

As to your shooting...

She knew that I would want to shoot, and I mean lots...

Of course, because you AREN'T ALLOWED to do so in your OWN COUNTRY. So, why do you come over here to indulge in your "filthy little vice"? (Filthy according to the Brits; as horrific as child porn.) IMHO, no British subject should be allowed to touch a firearm in the U.S., as long as their countrymen sneer at firearms ownership of the "Bloody Yanks".

Just my opinions. No flame intended.
 
Olsen, hmmmm, doesn't sound like a black name. Just kidding.

So would you persecute me as a minority lover of the shooting arts because of my persecution by the majority in my home country. Would you not welcome me as a fellow shooter regardless of my nationality, I guess I'm surprised by your hostility and I'm glad to say that I encountered no anti-English hostility during my range visits in the states. Your attitude saddens me and reminds me of the time I found it necessary to pose as an American just to have my voice heard here. You lessen yourself sir.

Mike H
 
So would you persecute me as a minority lover of the shooting arts...

Why not? WE are so persecuted here in the U.S.

...because of my persecution by the majority in my home country.

Your persecution in your country was openly embraced by your own citizens. The answer lies not in "sneaking off" to a place that allows you to exercise your "nasty little vice". Rather, it lies in reclaiming your own country from the socialists, and removing the "nanny state" mentality that is so prevalent there.

Would you not welcome me as a fellow shooter regardless of my nationality, I guess I'm surprised by your hostility...

I cannot abide an individual who decries personal firearm ownership, but engages in it "on the sly" himself. That is (IMHO) the very essence of hypocrisy. If I recall correctly, you have steadfastly supported the Draconian measures taken by your government to disarm private citizens.

Had you not taken such a stance, I would indeed welcome you with open arms, and buy you a box of ammunition as well. It's just the two-faced nature of your life in England vs. the U.S. that bothers me so. I have nothing against you personally.

But if you're going to come 3000+ miles to shoot, and still support private disarmament, I cannot support or welcome you in the exercise of your "hobby".

No flame intended. Just my opinions.


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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H.L. Mencken
 
I noticed that most of my gun books were published in the UK. I aksed one of my friends and he said: "pornography". Basically, have pics of what you can't own.
http://www.aidoann.com is a good site by an ex-Brit. I am perfectly willing to teach any visitors to the US how to shoot whatever is common to their native land...so they might be at least minimally prepared if need be.

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://www.a-human-right.com
http://www.olegvolk.net
 
Dennis,

I recall taking a stand against the myth that crime levels are rising in the UK because the government banned handguns, mea culpa, but I don't ever recall saying that the handgun ban was right and just, and if I did, then I would have been wrong. Do I support the ban on handguns, no, definitely not. I will say this however, we partake of many activities on our foreign travels that we would not dream of pursuing in England, it's one way of meeting local people and indulging in what may well be a national pastime. Bull fighting never seemed offensive when you take part in the ritual in Spain, but I would hardly campaign for a bullring in my hometown here. It was always my impression that shooting was a part of American cultural history, you identify your current freedoms with it and part of my interest when travelling in the US is borne out of that, indeed I spent a long time examining some Winchester pattern repeaters and replica Brown Bess muskets that I would love to have shot because of their historical significance, unfortunately rifle rental ranges seem pretty scarce as opposed to handgun rental. If you find that my love of guns isn't extreme enough or as all embracing as you'd like it to be, then I'm hardly in a position to apologise for that since that would be your problem and not mine. If I come across as a hypocrite, well, all I can say is that it may interest you to know that the ability to pursue my love of shooting is a major factor during our current deliberations as to whether we should relocate to the US as residents, indeed I have stated to my wife that I would not be willing to move to a gun unfriendly state such as Maryland, Mass. or California. I suggest you don't judge me so readily until you've walked a mile in my moccassins. If however your problem stems from me somehow representing the anti-gun British population, reasoning with you is pointless.

P.S. Stop saying "this isn't a flame" at the bottom of each of your postings, I could toast bread over them.

Mike H
 
MikeH,

If you are taking my posts as flames, that is in your mind only. Many of the folks here have seen my REAL flames, and I have been duely chastised for them. I differ with your country on its meek acceptance of an ever-growing hydra-headed government.

I recalled that you had stood up for the various gun bans in your country, and for the state of mind that called for them. If I have recalled incorrectly, I sincerly apologize.

I feel that "going elsewhere" in whatever form is the wrong strategy. There aren't many "elsewheres" left. We must, as a world community, stand up for the right of self-defense and firearm ownership for law-abiding citizens. Anything less is doomed to fail.

Hope this explains my position in more detail.

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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H.L. Mencken
 
Meanwhile, a ways back from the fire:

Mike, are you somehow related to FUD?

Braving the brazen bear while boldly gathering firewood, covered by wife with .22. Burning down the cabin with many of your possesions inside. All the while keeping your sense of humor and enjoying your hollidays. That sounds rather FUDish to me.

I read the London Times pretty regularly and get the impression that the English crime rate is steadily escallating, mostly attributable to your gun control and anti self defense laws. Yours started in 1903, we got a late start by waiting till 1934.

"Less government, more individual responsibility".....JBS

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
MikeH, I enjoyed reading about your experiences in Pennsylvania.It brought back some old fond memories!

I too was a foreigner that visited Pennsylvania.

I am from the state of Georgia and some would claim I have an accent too ;)

I was fortunate enough to meet my wife there.
My wife was raised in farm country, west of Pittsburgh and her family owns a deer camp right outside of Cooks Forest. It is a small world.

I'm glad you enjoyed your trip here. Even, though we retain more gun ownership rights than you do, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find a good place to shoot. I have to drive an hour to use a decent outdoor range!

Is it true that you guys are allowed to own silencers for your deer rifles? I was talking to someone that visited England three years ago and he swore it was true!

Glad you enjoyed your trip!

ordo
 
It's a reeeaaaaaalllly small world. I used to go to the Greentree drive in; hunted and camped around Clarion and Cooks Forest. Absolutely great times.

As to the rudeness, northerners are like that. There is a lot of abruptness, some outright hatred and hostility, but mostly little time for banter with strangers. I was deeply shocked when I saw how southerners behaved.....and still a bit annoyed over their incredible slowness and lack of enterprise. But then, I'm a northerner and can be rude like that :D

When you get a chance next, come to South Carolina and I'll have you shooting everything I can find. (I'll only charge one good english longbow, of yew, of course)

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When Reason Fails.....
 
Vaughn, you have a really keen sense of humor! That is probably responsible for you being able to survive among the civilized folks way, way up north there in South Carolina ;)

ordo

[This message has been edited by ordo (edited October 02, 2000).]
 
Well, comin' from Texas, and knowin' that the rest of the world talks funny...Mike, you might consider moving to the western US. Heck, half the ranches were started by English remittance men, anyway, although it's unfair and a base canard to say they intermarried with buffalo.

I ain't sure about the southeast. Down there, they think a six-pack and an electronic bug zapper make for a great evening's entertainment.

One thing for sure: There's always room for one more shooter.

:), Art
 
I just erased a long post, which was mostly about stuffy, inbred,(see Charles's ears)people in need of proper dental work.
Just joshing!
You seem to have a bad case of _______ envy, fill in what you wish.
Not to say anything bad about a Brit, or anything, hey, I married one my own tobacco stained self!
Where are we when you need help, eh, old bean? Joking, I'm sure!
If this seemed like a criticism of ya'all clothed in a joke, well then, turnabout is fair play. If not, just joking, I'm sure.
BTW. I don't go to your country and bitch about the punks and food, don't bitch about our down-home folks.

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jones
"permits, we don't need no stinking permits!"
 
Mike I am glad you had a good time. The next time you come to the USA mayby you can try Oklahoma. We have it all-nice people, shooting ranges, bbq, rodeos, wilderness areas, tornados and some really hot weather. You would be welcome here as a fellow shooter anytime. I can take you to my gun club on a saturday and introduce you and you would probably get to shoot every gun on the range, even if you just met the guy that owned the gun. I took a visitor from Germany to the range one day and he lost count of the different guns he got to shoot.
You also might ever see a real indian, if you don't I will introduce you to my son-in-law.

Dennis you can stop practicing, you are now a perfect pain in the butt! No flame intended. Just my opinion.
 
Dennis you can stop practicing, you are now a perfect pain in the butt!

Takes years of hard work and practice, or so my wife keeps telling me....
 
I'm glad to hear you had a good time stateside. I've seen a growing number of German tourists in the gun stores around here (Anchorage, AK). One group I ran across on the trail took a positive interest in my Casull. I sometimes wonder if an organized gun vacation for curious Europeans would be a good idea. Or do these things exist already? It sounds like you had to set up your own.

BTW, as I'm sure you know, a .22 is not sufficient bear protection unless you get really, really, really lucky. On the other hand, it sounds like you may have had the new .22 Linebaugh ;-)
 
Mike--

You have invitations from Oklahoma, West Texas, now North Texas. I have a couple of items you might enjoy shooting. I imagine that, if you posted that you were headed this way, you'd be deluged with suggestions that you shoot and visit in Central, East and Gulf Coast Texas as well. You could make a pretty good shooting tour in just this part of the Southwest. There's enough room so that, if someone irritates you, you can just turn and walk away slow.

Y'all come on and visit. You might find a place where you'd want to live.

All the best,
Johnny

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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
 
Mike, America has become one giant Walmart, sad but true. Some people like that I guess, being fat, slothlike piles of poo who wear the same Walmart clothes day in and day out...cheap polo shirt tucked into lame ill fitting shorts, belly hanging over buckle, chinsy white running shoes with socks pulled up high. Pennsylvania is particularly disturbing. I remember driving through from Cleveland (another dump) to Toronto on 90(?), the two people I talked too were some bucktoothed hick who asked me if I knew where he could score some speed, and an Amish person who clenched his lip like they hadn't shat in two weeks (must not be eating their oats).

I would stay in England if I were you. Other than that %17 VAT socialism does have its redeeming qualities, like not having Ronald McDonald, Pepsi, Coke, GAP, ect shoved down your throat.
 
Pennsylvania still has the most gun owner friendly laws in the entire country (Hi caps, NFA, concealed carry all allowed by law). So remember that when some of you say that most Pennsylvanians are imbred, disturbing & bucktoothed. I haven't seen anyone like that since my trip to Chicago (the mistake on that other lake) last week (Thru Ohoho, Indiana, Illinois & almost Wisconsin). A lot of you are from states where you are lucky if you can still own a BB gun. Also remember, we were one of the original 13 states that put the limmies in their place. Without the original 13 (and the Pa rifle of course), there wouldn't have been 37 more for our foreign visitors (Hey limmie, where are you from? Your profile says Pgh, Pa & you say England, so choose one) to enjoy on their "almost shooting someone on the range" vacations (sounds like another one that should not be a gun owner). You mentioned all the fastfood joints, but failed to mention all the "Pubs" that you limmies are so fond of. Just my overweight arse opinion from the free state of Pennsylvania! Love it or don't visit!

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Old chinese proverb: Life's tough enough. It's even tougher when your stupid. No offense given & none taken.

[This message has been edited by manny1 (edited October 03, 2000).]
 
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