Concealed carry in San Francisco

GPB

Inactive
I understand that the concealed-carry laws are very strict in California, and CCW applicants are basically at the mercy of local law enforcement. With this in mind, is it remotely possible for a San Francisco resident to get a CCW permit? I am asking on behalf of a friend who will be moving to SF in a couple of months.

[This message has been edited by GPB (edited May 02, 1999).]
 
San Francisco is the city that passed a handgun ban when Senator Diane was Mayor Diane, just shortly after her predecessor and a county supervisor were shot and killed by an employee they had fired. The ban was overturned in court because of state preemption. I would check with Jim March's CCW reform web page for guidelines. See: http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/ for details.

Does your friend absolutely have to live in San Francisco City & County? Many people who work there commute from as far as Sacramento and Stockton.



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Bruce Stanton
 
The chances are virtually nil. Only the chief law enforcement officer of a county may issue and can refuse without cause. SF is unique in the state as a City and County, therefore the Sheriff or Chief of Police may issue but they will not absent a showing of overwhelming need combined with the exertion of some political influence. Many public figures have been granted them, including then Mayor Feinstein, but you could probably count the number of 'Joe Citizen' permits on one hand.
 
Bruce,

My friend has not yet found an apartment. He probably would prefer to be reasonably close to his office, primarily because his car is not something you'd trust to take you home late at night. Is it true that northern Ca. counties are less tight-fisted with CCW permits?

This is the main reason why I don't plan to live/work in California. Washington's a shall-issue state, right?
 
Getting a CCW in San Francisco is the equivilant of p*ss*ng up a rope for the average citizen. I lived there and was smart enough to leave. NUFF SAID?
Paul B.
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
 
California is a weird state. there are pockets of anti-gun sentiment surrounded by vaset areas of pro-gun people. The Bay area, (SF, San Jose, etc) is very anti-gun, but you go an hour in any direction out of the silicon valley (except west, cuz it the ocean) and your in pretty much pro-gun territory.
 
GPB,

Forget CCW in San Francisco. The next county north is Marin, and it is largely anti-gun. Try Sonoma County. I don't have stats but it is still largely rural, although it is being inundated refugees from the south. Your firend will probably fair better there...Petaluma is a good choice. As pointed out earlier, east of SF is better than SF, but you will have to go quite aways and the commute will be BRUTAL.
 
GPB: Tell your friend to immediately apply for a concealed carry weapon permit as soon as he establishes residency. He should go to the Sheriffs Dept for the County in which he resides. Recent legislation has limited issuing agencies to permit only residents of their own jurisdiction. If he lives in Frisco, it's gotta be Frisco. Most permits have restrictions, but usually are good statewide. Mostly likely he'll waste his time and money...several hundred doallars and many months before finally being denied. He will have at least established a paper trail indicating he was concerned for his safety and that he tried to be a good "law abiding citizen" but was descriminated against by the issuing agency. This could be a little bit of help if he deicides to carry anyway and gets involved in a bad thing. The Frisco bay area has some real bad "people" in it and bad things happen way more often than the media lets on. Good luck to your friend. Tell him that "carrying" is not something to consider lightly, even where one can be licensed with ease.
 
If denied, maybe Jim March can help out. Evidently he's getting thing straightened out in his neck of the Kalifornia woods. He's also got a web site dedicated to this endevor with lots of info.

He's on the boards, just keep an eye out.

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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."

www.countdown9199.com
 
Jim is a moderator on our site.

Since I don't want his address being harvested by the spambots, I'll refrain from posting it here, but go to <a href="http://www.bladeforums.com/">BladeForums.com</a> and open the Community Center Forum, you'll find his email address there.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
 
tanstaaffl is right about Sonoma County. Forget getting one in San Francisco (there's less than 150 out there). The Sheriff gives it only to his chronies on the Mounted Posse who give big bucks and the Police Chief to the politicos and those under their aegis.

Sonoma is much more liberal about firearms and it is definitely easier to get a permit from their Sheriff (who does real law enforcement work). Alternatively, find a small town and where the Chief is pro-citizen and that's half the battle. One town, Isletown even issued permits for a fee as a means of fundraising. It was too successful and the state shut down the Chief's operation (with regards to non-Isletown residents).
 
Hi all, I've not been too active of late due to work and the lawsuit, but methinks it's time I chimed in.

In California, you can apply to your PD Chief (if you're in a town) or your Sheriff (always). The Chief can issue only within his town, the Sheriff can issue county-wide.

The PD Chief or Sheriff you apply to is legally obligated to:

1) Make the permit application forms and related policy info (fee structure, training requirements, etc.) available to all.

2) Judge every applicant on their own individual merits and needs for a permit. They CAN require a "good cause for issuance" beyond "wants self defense", unfortunately. See also the Salute vs. Pitchess appeals court ruling on my website!

3) Blanket-zero-issuance policies are illegal, again, per Salute vs. Pitchess. If all applicants must be "individually judged", total non-issuance is therefore illegal.

4) Fee structures and requirements must not exceed the limits put in place 1/1/99 by AB2022, the text of which is linked on my site.

San Francisco is in gross violation of just about all of the above. They've got a total of 11 permits out last I heard, and those were mostly "grandfathered" oldtimers that are getting repeat renewals.

IF somebody is willing to print out Salute vs. Pitchess and a few choice documents showing the racial origins of discretionary CCW to the city attorney's office and threaten a lawsuit if the stuff ain't fixed pronto, you might get a deal similar to what I got in Richmond, just across the bay.

Bring along Clayton's "Racist Roots of Gun Control" and the Detroit News article on the origins of Michigan's system in 1927 at the behest of the KKK, both linked on my site.

What I got in Richmond is an agreement for them to fully comply with the above four points. I have now applied based on having "good cause" (DAMN good) and based on conversations with the Chief and Assistant Chief I think I'll get it. I've got copies of the Richmond application forms online, plus notes on what might establish "good cause" if bias and elitism isn't being applied.

Remember that City Attorneys have immense power over the PD Chief. He's a city employee; if he's acting in an illegal fashion the city is liable. The elected Sheriff is a "seperate entity" and much harder to put similar pressure on.

Plan "B" is, sue the both of 'em. See also my pleading, and other notes. These clowns are breaking the law, it's time somebody called 'em on it.

In Contra Costa County the Sheriff has been a VERY bad boy. He's been pre-screening applicants at $100-a-head benefit picnics (benefitting his campaign coffers) and THEN overcharging 'em by hundreds of bux each. I'm tracking that cash now. See also:
http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/mainscan.html

The Sheriff also had blanket-zero-issuance policies in violations of Salute in only TWO towns in the whole county: Richmond and Pittsburg. The Chiefs of these towns had asked him to do so, and didn't issue either. Care to guess which two towns were predominantly black in the otherwise white county? And the Sheriff and both Chiefs were white...geee wiz, Jim Crow alive and well. (NOTE: it was the LAST Chief in Richmond that did this, when the new Chief, the city attorney (Mr. Nishioka) and the assistant Chief (Ray Howard, who is black!) found out what was going on, they cleaned up - fast.

This is unlinked:
http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/disc.doc
It's a preliminary version of my discovery motion against the Sheriff, being reviewed by a lawyer now and "turned into a bit more legalese". It should scare the hell out of him, MAYBE to the point where he'll settle. The proposed settlement ain't gonna be a "softball" as Richmond's deal, I'm asking for county-wide shall-issue in writing!

I should know if I'll get Richmond CCW in a short time, maybe a week or so. IF I do, it'll prove that the techniques of "show 'em what's wrong and gently steer 'em straight" I used in Richmond WORK. Failing that, I'm also trying the "take no prisoners courtroom scorched earth" approach with the Sheriff. Even if it works, that takes longer - start with a meeting with your city attorney, show 'em what's wrong, see if you can get minimal reforms in place. It'll help if you have a reason for needing beyond "general self defense", such as a specific criminal threat, a restraining order, a high-crime-risk job, whatever. See my site for notes.

90% of all Chiefs and Sheriffs are breaking the CCW laws. We get enough lawsuits going, we'll generate bad PR and major $$$ spend on defending 'em and at some point, the legislature will end the chaos by doing statewide reform.

Jim March
 
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