Comparing recoil between .380, 9mm pocket pistols, and snubbies

S

Stockhausen

Inactive
I haven't shot much, and I've never shot a compact gun. I'd like to know more or less how recoil compares before throwing down money to try them each at a range. I'm especially interested if anyone has tried Kel Tec 3at & P9, and Charter Arms Off Duty.

But the more I look on this forum, the more I end up admiring the XD subcompact 9mm and wondering if a little bigger is worth carrying. :D
 
Larger gun and heavier weight generally translates to less recoil. Of the guns you mentioned, the XD would have the least recoil, be more reliable, and be more accurate. Much easier to shoot proficiently.

The pocket pistols are excellent for ease of carry, but also a lot more finicky and prone to problems. Some people really do not like the recoil. The 9mm varieties do have more kick than the .380s (maybe the 9s recoil would be similar to an S&W Airweight +P). They take more work to get good with but they are definitely a viable option. I generally don't recommend them as first or only guns.
 
I have fired a P-32 and a PF9. The P-32 recoil is not at all challenging. The PF9 on the other hand has pretty harsh recoil which is made worse by a very rough in all the wrong ways grip that feels like it is tearing into your hand when you fire. I don't know how the P3-AT compares though.

That being said, I don't think this is a relevant comparison in the first place because the P3-AT is not in the same class as the other two guns.

The PF9, like all 9mm pistols that aren't derringers, is really a sub-compact pistol, not a pocket pistol. The Charter Arms revolver is also not a pocket pistol to me.

The P3-AT is a true pocket-pistol. It will fit in any pocket big enough to hold a normal bi-fold wallet and yet remain virtually undetectable, especially with a holster designed to make it look more like a wallet. This is not the case with the other two guns mentioned. They may fit in many pockets, but they will not go into jeans or pants pockets comfortably and won't be hidden in such pockets. Drawing them is also much harder than a true pocket pistol, even from somewhat larger pockets where they fit a little better. Basically they are for use in cargo pants or jacket pockets, so if you wear normal jeans without a jacket in the summer you are probably going to need to use a holster for one of those guns.


If you are fine with the size of the PF9 then I would also consider waiting for this to become available instead, as it isn't much bigger, and is a .45:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/springfield-armory-xds/
 
I've owned 2 Kel-tecs; the P3AT and the P11 9mm. The P11 was not fun to shoot; it aggravated the arthritis in my hand. The P3AT has not been reliable for me. I have had very good luck with my S&W 442 in .38spl. It's compact, light, reliable, and easy to shoot-- at less than $400, consider that. I really love my Ruger SR9c; it's easy to shoot, reliable and accurate. Rent the guns before you buy, if you can. Good luck!
 
Momano--in other words, the snubby was easier to shoot than the Kel Tecs?

Arentol--I did not know about that one. I've never shot a .45 before. Do you know how the size compares to the 9mm subcompact? The subcompact XD seems to me like it would be good for a beginner thinking about concealed carry--concealable, but not overly snappy and out of control for a novice.
 
.45acp is actually pretty easy to shoot, especially in non +P. Don't forget it was designed over 100 years ago for guns of that era that were not as strong as modern guns.

As to this gun in particular, as you can see from the article I linked the guys at Shot Show were pretty comfortable with the recoil on this particular gun.
 
What do you shoot now? I have a variety of "pocket" pistols and I'll try to cover the recoil feeling..
Kel-Tec P32 - mild recoil for a super light gun. If it feels secure in your hand, you can shoot fast and accurate. Fit in a speedo!

M640 - in 38, it is pretty mild....my daughter 13 doesn't like it, but a 32acp is her upper limit at this point. In 38+P, it is about max for most people. In 357 mag, it is harsh, but you can learn to shoot fast and accurate. It is magnaported, so that helps. Super easy to carry.

XD 9 - TOO WIDE for ccw. It is compact in some ways, but just way too wide IMO.

Kahr P40 - great ccw weapon, but being so small and light, it can be harsh after like 50 rounds or so. Easy to hit with...easier to carry.

Star Firestar M40 - pretty mild, but weighs a lot for a small gun. Still, very controllable. Weight would make it hard to ccw.

1911 Officer - a bigger compact. Still a great gun, but a skilled shooter is needed to keep 230 jhp's on target rapid fire. Not really harsh due to the weight, I think. Carries easy on belt or shoulder rig.
 
I have the following that might be relevant to the topic

Kel Tec P3AT (380)
Kel Tec P11 (9mm)
Taurus TCP (380)
Ruger SP101 snub (357mag)

The felt recoil is the worst in the P11 by a wide margin. The 2 pocket 380s would be next and the 357 snub last
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. Nathan--I don't own a gun yet, and won't be able to afford a 2nd one for awhile. None of my friends up here shoot, either. As I'm saving up for my first, I'm trying to decide which way to go.

First I wanted a small .22 to practice on, but it will be a long time before I get that second gun that has enough power to stop a BG. Then I was thinking about the Kel Tec P3AT because of how easy it is to conceal, but if that's my only gun, I'll probably be all over the place shooting it.

Would you guys agree that it's better for a beginner to manage learning on a subcompact 9mm like the XD? I'm thinking about that one. The subcompact one looks like it's small enough to carry if I'm able to practice enough--that's a major factor. I was interested in snubbies until I realized how much more .38 ammo costs.
 
sr9c

Check out the ruger sr9c its a compact 9mm and comes with a 10 round mag that is flush fit, and an extended full sizlie 15 round mag with a grip extension that maks it feel like a fullsize. And dont be fooled into buying a snubbie, take the actuall ballistics from a snubnose 357 mag and a compact 9mm+p and its a pretty close race, except the 357 has horrible report and flash. Dont get me wrong, I love the 357 but it just needs more barrel to get the energy
 
Grip matters!

I have owned many of the guns mentioned, and my take is that the size of the grip and how it fits your hand makes a BIG difference in how you perceive the recoil and how comfortable it is to shoot. Let me explain.

My first pocket gun was the KelTec 3AT. Great for pocket carry, but I hated shooting it. It was too small for me to grip and felt like it was jumping out of my hand. I had to readjust my grip between shots. For that reason, I got rid of it. In a self defense situation, I doubt that the BG will let you call a time-out while you re-grip for a second shot. I tried the rubber slip on grips too and they helped some, but not enough to satisfy me.

My next try was the KT pf9. I really like this pistol. Yes, it has a stout recoil, but with the tiny pinky extension, I can grip it much better and I found it more comfortable to shoot than their .380. I guess I call the pf9 a "crossover" as I can fit it in some pockets, but not all. It fits sooo nice IWB though due to its thin frame. If I had only one 9mm for ccw, this would probably be it.

And my last "pocket rocket" is the Taurus 85 Ultralite. It is a .38, in case you are not familiar with it. It fits nice in my pockets, and it is very comfortable for me to shoot. Interestingly, it does tend to recoil up (barrel tip raises) but you hardlly feel any recoil. It just "feels" soft, but I think it has more to do with how I grip it or how it fits my hands. It has the original rubber grips which fit leave my pinky against the bottom of the grip but still providing support. There are a variety of grips you can put on revolvers - for two or three finger grips - so that adds to the attraction and appeal to me too. Another keeper for me.

So that is the summary of my experience. I hope it helps.
 
First and foremost, I would carry what I shoot the best with, no matter what that is (reasonable caliber of course).

Generally, the full size guns are a lot easier to shoot well with than their reduced size counterparts. Worry about what you can do with the gun first, and how youll carry it second.

The full sized guns really arent all that hard to hide and carry either. Ive done it daily for about 40 years now, and have yet to have a problem. Ive also carried "compact" guns that many people these days consider as an only option, as second guns and back ups to the full sized gun. Im not big either, nor do I dress out of line for my environment.

The smaller revolvers can be shot well if you practice with them, but generally, they do require more practice, and you do need to practice with loads you intend to carry in the gun. Its usually not pleasant practice either, as hot loads in these usually lightweight guns tends to be punishing.

Autos of more or less equal size and power are generally a lot easier to shoot well with. They also usually give you better sights, more on board ammo, and easier, quicker reloads.

I shoot both on a pretty regular basis, and when shot realistically, my hits on target at 15 yards with my Glock 26's, are usually about what my hits at 5-7 yards with my 642's look like.


Personally, Id look into getting the full size version of what youre interested in, and learn to shoot it properly. Doing so wont be wasted effort if for some reason you find later you dont want to deal with the larger gun. At least this way, the skills you acquire, will more easily transfer to the smaller guns, and youll be better prepared to deal with them.
 
Of the two 9mm, I'd pick the XDsc...great shooter, though not really a pocket gun. Good for IWB or ankle carry.

Next of you're choices would be the CA .38spl....also a good shooter, and more controllable & reliable than a micro-.380....

If you need a micro pocket gun, choose the .32 over the .380....easier to control and just as effective with good, European-made ammo....
 
May I make a suggestion: spend the money at the range.

You are asking someone(s) you don't know to give you a subjective answer to an subjective question, . . . and the very best honest answer you will ever get is simply: "It depends,.............."

Renting most guns is a $10 or $15 deal per gun, . . . per session, . . . and if you start out with one box of 9mm FMJ rounds, . . . you are at (using my local range prices) $45 for the guns, . . . $12 for the ammo, . . . $20 for 1 hour of range time = $77.00

If you pick the wrong gun based on Bubba's answer, . . . you will lose that $77 just in your first trade, . . . plus you will always wonder, . . . Did I make the right choice.

Personally, . . . I have medium large hands, . . . love shooting anything that has .45 (not .454 mind you), . . . but I don't know of any 3 or 4 9mm guns I would trade for my beat up old Rock Island GI special (if I had to keep em and carry em and shoot em, :mad:), . . . but that is just me.

I gave away a perfectly good, . . . totally reliable, . . . .380, . . . just because it had a snappy recoil that made me "think" before I shot, . . . and that affected my ability to shoot accurately with it.

Spend the cash, . . . you'll have fun, . . . and be wiser for the experience.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
the PF9 is the least fun shooting gun I've ever had. 2nd was a Taurus model 85 Ultralight .38....both were nasty, IMO. the KTec P3AT wasn't too far behind. I agree with the previous comment re: the KTecs grips. IMO, they feel very harsh. 9mm's and .45 are much more comfortable and fun.

Now, you want a snubbie that's easy to shoot? Get the Ruger LCR. My petite wife carries it and I love shooting that thing. If you get it in .357 (a couple ounces heavier than the .38 version) you can still run .38s thru it. With non+p loads, it's a piece of cake to shoot.
 
Kel Tec P-11 9mm-I just could'nt get the hang of it.

The recoil,the long stiff trigger pull and the short grip all made for a 'where am I going to hit next' kind of feeling.

Recoil was not fun but with training I could get used to it.

Mauser Hsc380-like a Walther PPK just a little bigger-recoil was stout but the grip was well designed-sadly the gun was never reliable so I sold it.

Numerous 38 snubs with every type round under the sun-recoil has never been a problem for me. ever.

I shoot all of them well I ever shot.
 
Absolutely better for a new shooter

don't get a pocket pistol for your first especially if you can't buy another one for awhile. you will be incredibly frustrated trying to become competent with it. personally, i would say you probably shouldn't be concealing anything until you have had a good amount of practice.

my father shoots and loves his xd9 subcompact. he can easily pull off 4" groups with it at 7yds. another good alternative is the walther pps. it shoots like a gun of much larger size, and conceals extremely well.
 
Normally, I would reccomend a 22 LR as a first pistol, but in an effort to get you something cheap to shoot, ccw and have as a house gun, I think I would reccomend a mid size 9mm like:

Kahr CW9

S&W M&P 9

Sig Sauer P250c

Glock 19

I think with a few hours of training and practice, you could become quite competent with any of the above. Buy practice ammo online for 500-1000 at a time to save money.

They are all just pull to shoot guns, so you definately need to train to keep your finger straight until you decide to shoot. You also have to train to look in your holster when reholstering to be sure it is clear before pushing your gun in the holster.

For a first holster, something like a Comptac paddle or a Don Hume pancake would be ideal. Carry 1 extra mag.
 
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