Compact 9mm with +P Loads
- Thread starter j-heart
- Start date
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. I currently use a Glock 26 that's only used with +P ammo.
No problems whatsoever.
Best.
No problems whatsoever.
Best.
Kel-Tec P-11, Taurus PT-111, or Kahr P9, because you said
Taurus has had some problems with the grip cracking, but the problem's been fixed, the problem's never hurt anybody or caused a functional failure, and Taurus picks up 100% of the expenses of fixing the problem. Also 10+1 capacity. Middle of the three in price.
Kahrs may experience steel guide rails in the frame being warped. Some smoothing may be needed to avoid getting cut. Lowest capacity, highest price.
Kel-Tecs might need some finishing (see www.KTOG.org for Fluff & Buff info), but you can't beat the price and 10+1 capacity.
Taurus has had some problems with the grip cracking, but the problem's been fixed, the problem's never hurt anybody or caused a functional failure, and Taurus picks up 100% of the expenses of fixing the problem. Also 10+1 capacity. Middle of the three in price.
Kahrs may experience steel guide rails in the frame being warped. Some smoothing may be needed to avoid getting cut. Lowest capacity, highest price.
Eric Larsen
New member
small 9mm ideas....
I have a Kahr K series and an S&W 3953, both are very much what you are looking for. They handle +P ammo, thin and light to carry. Also the Keltec p11 and Taurus mentioned earlier are small, light and dependable. Cz makes the PCR that is about the same size as the 3953....all are worthy of a look.
Shoot well
I have a Kahr K series and an S&W 3953, both are very much what you are looking for. They handle +P ammo, thin and light to carry. Also the Keltec p11 and Taurus mentioned earlier are small, light and dependable. Cz makes the PCR that is about the same size as the 3953....all are worthy of a look.
Shoot well
I'm a little hesitant to go with the Kel-Tec since I've heard so many complain about them. It seems you get a good one or a lemon by the luck of the draw.
I looked on the Taurus site and found the PT-111 and was assuming that this is the one you were recommending. GunFinder sells it for $302 which seems like the best buy.
I looked on the Sig site and found the P239 which also seemed nice and compact. Price is a little steeper. Ozark Guns sells it for about $529.
What really caught my eye was the Karh MK9 Elite 2000 Micro Pistol - Model M9097A. This seemed the smallest of them, although mag capacity was 6+1 and it was a little higher in cost than the Sig. The only site I could find them was at Long Island Shooting Center for $578.
Any experience with these last three?
I looked on the Taurus site and found the PT-111 and was assuming that this is the one you were recommending. GunFinder sells it for $302 which seems like the best buy.
I looked on the Sig site and found the P239 which also seemed nice and compact. Price is a little steeper. Ozark Guns sells it for about $529.
What really caught my eye was the Karh MK9 Elite 2000 Micro Pistol - Model M9097A. This seemed the smallest of them, although mag capacity was 6+1 and it was a little higher in cost than the Sig. The only site I could find them was at Long Island Shooting Center for $578.
Any experience with these last three?
J-Heart:
I have owned many semi-auto pistols (SIG, Beretta, Ruger, Kahr, Walther) and my suggestions are the following:
1 - SIG P239
2 - Kahr MK Series (Elite)
Both are great guns. For ultra-small the Kahr is tough to beat. The Elite series has a better trigger than the standard model. If you do get the standard, you can buy the elite trigger parts from Kahr for about $25 and put the trigger in yourself.
The SIG is s better gun, but its a little bigger. As far as the other guns you suggested, the above 2 guns are better (IMO). No "dis" on the other guys, just my opinion after thousands of rounds.
Peter Gunn
I have owned many semi-auto pistols (SIG, Beretta, Ruger, Kahr, Walther) and my suggestions are the following:
1 - SIG P239
2 - Kahr MK Series (Elite)
Both are great guns. For ultra-small the Kahr is tough to beat. The Elite series has a better trigger than the standard model. If you do get the standard, you can buy the elite trigger parts from Kahr for about $25 and put the trigger in yourself.
The SIG is s better gun, but its a little bigger. As far as the other guns you suggested, the above 2 guns are better (IMO). No "dis" on the other guys, just my opinion after thousands of rounds.
Peter Gunn
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There are no "lemons" among Kel-Tecs because they're 100% warrantied, and KT has one of the best customer service departments ever. IOW, if there's a problem, they fix it. The problem is that you may have to suffer through messing around polishing, fitting, testing, etc., to get the perfect P11 you want. I bought a new one last fall, and it was perfect out of the box. However, being a consummate tinkerer and not liking the long heavy trigger typical of DAO pistols, I "smithed" it to my own standards of perfection. And that's just what it is now -- perfect. It's been 100% reliable, and I couldn't be more pleased.
But not everybody would even consider taking on what could be a "work-in-progress" so they may not want to mess with KTs. For a few $hundred more, KT could sell perfectly tuned P-11s, but that's not KT's target market.
The PT-111 has its completely satisfied fans and a few detractors just like any other pistol. Taurus has an even better warranty than KT, if that's possible. If something's wrong, Taurus will pay to have it shipped back to them for repair or replacement, then they pay to have it sent back to you. OTOH, Taurus turns warranty items around in about a month versus 2 weeks for KT.
Kahr also has a great warranty, and for the higher price, you get a better finished pistol. The P-9 is in the same class as the PT-111 and P-11. weight wise. The K-9 and MK-9 are great, but they're all steel and you'll probably become quite aware that you're carrying it after a few hours. Small, but they seem "heavier" than you would think.
I'm just not interested in a compact carry gun that's NOT DAO as these three are, but YMMV. If at all possible, try them all out before buying.
But not everybody would even consider taking on what could be a "work-in-progress" so they may not want to mess with KTs. For a few $hundred more, KT could sell perfectly tuned P-11s, but that's not KT's target market.
The PT-111 has its completely satisfied fans and a few detractors just like any other pistol. Taurus has an even better warranty than KT, if that's possible. If something's wrong, Taurus will pay to have it shipped back to them for repair or replacement, then they pay to have it sent back to you. OTOH, Taurus turns warranty items around in about a month versus 2 weeks for KT.
Kahr also has a great warranty, and for the higher price, you get a better finished pistol. The P-9 is in the same class as the PT-111 and P-11. weight wise. The K-9 and MK-9 are great, but they're all steel and you'll probably become quite aware that you're carrying it after a few hours. Small, but they seem "heavier" than you would think.
I'm just not interested in a compact carry gun that's NOT DAO as these three are, but YMMV. If at all possible, try them all out before buying.
Kel-tec? Lemons? You're thinking Taurus Millenium
I have only had my Kel-Tec P11 a short time; but it has been 100% reliable, accurate and a pleasure to carry concealed. I was scared off for while by the vocal minority, but I bought one and am glad I did. Best mini-9mm for the money, period.
Of course if you have twice the money and nothing better to spend it on, then go with a Glock 26 or Kahr P9.
mlk18
I have only had my Kel-Tec P11 a short time; but it has been 100% reliable, accurate and a pleasure to carry concealed. I was scared off for while by the vocal minority, but I bought one and am glad I did. Best mini-9mm for the money, period.
Of course if you have twice the money and nothing better to spend it on, then go with a Glock 26 or Kahr P9.
mlk18
dirtbrokegundude
New member
I love it, someone quotes a gun as being good because their company readily takes back their junk and fixes it. Grip cracks? Need to polish? fit? test? How about we buy a decent gun and leave that to the manufacturer? I want a finished product, not work-in-progress.
You can't go wrong with probably any SIG, Bersa, Glock, Kimber if they make one......and several others. I'd keep my distance from the Taurus and Kel-Tec line of guns. Would you trust yourself with a gun that is popular because it breaks so much and needs so much work that the customer service is great? Oh jeez.......I hope not.
Eric Larsen
New member
(quote)
"I love it, someone quotes a gun as being good because their company readily takes back their junk and fixes it. Grip cracks? Need to polish? fit? test? How about we buy a decent gun and leave that to the manufacturer? I want a finished product, not work-in-progress."
Generalizing about manufacturers in a negative way, based on what you read on the net, isnt doing anyone a service, especially you. The PT111 hasnt had a problem of any kind and should be considered as a viable option.
(quote)
"You can't go wrong with probably any SIG, Bersa, Glock, Kimber if they make one......and several others. I'd keep my distance from the Taurus and Kel-Tec line of guns. Would you trust yourself with a gun that is popular because it breaks so much and needs so much work that the customer service is great? Oh jeez.......I hope not."
Sig and Glock do make compact 9mm's. They are expensive and harder to conceal than the others mentioned. Bersa and Kimber
dont make guns fitting the request. I have trusted my life to Taurus guns and will continue to....at least I hope so.
Shoot well
"I love it, someone quotes a gun as being good because their company readily takes back their junk and fixes it. Grip cracks? Need to polish? fit? test? How about we buy a decent gun and leave that to the manufacturer? I want a finished product, not work-in-progress."
Generalizing about manufacturers in a negative way, based on what you read on the net, isnt doing anyone a service, especially you. The PT111 hasnt had a problem of any kind and should be considered as a viable option.
(quote)
"You can't go wrong with probably any SIG, Bersa, Glock, Kimber if they make one......and several others. I'd keep my distance from the Taurus and Kel-Tec line of guns. Would you trust yourself with a gun that is popular because it breaks so much and needs so much work that the customer service is great? Oh jeez.......I hope not."
Sig and Glock do make compact 9mm's. They are expensive and harder to conceal than the others mentioned. Bersa and Kimber
dont make guns fitting the request. I have trusted my life to Taurus guns and will continue to....at least I hope so.
Shoot well
Glad you're being entertained!
Fact is that there is no such thing as a "finished gun" available new from any manufacturer. From Glock KBs to you-name-it, the intricate, highly stressed machines we call guns will have problems during operation.
I think a lot of Glock, etc., but I'd think a lot more of them if they too offered a 100% lifetime warranty. Why not, since they're so "highly finished" and "decent guns" in the first place? It shouldn't cost them a nickel, right? But they don't do it!
For Kahr, Taurus, and KT to guarantee that their products will be reliable, period, and at their expense, means that you're buying a company in addition to one of its products.
What you've bought into is the illusion that your Glock, etc., will work the next time regardless of anything else. But you don't know if it will, and you can't know.... Good luck!
The Glock 26 is a great little 9mm. You can shoot +P+ all day long and not have any trouble out of it. I shoot and carry Hydra shok 124 grain +P+ out of mine and it has never given me a lick of trouble. As far as concealability goes, I wear mine all day long when in business attire under my right arm (I'm a lefty) in a belly band and no one has ever noticed. Maybe slow to get to, but I can carry 21 rounds of +P+ 9mm and no one is the wiser!
canis
canis
Think twice before going with Kahr's P9. Quite a few people, myself included, have had numerous problems with P-series Kahr pistols. Search these forums for the last year or so and a picture will emerge that's not at all complimentary to Kahr's polymer guns.
I now have a G26. It's a few ounces heavier, and a smidgeon thicker, but IT WORKS.
The P9 - call it a POS9 - didn't.
I now have a G26. It's a few ounces heavier, and a smidgeon thicker, but IT WORKS.
The P9 - call it a POS9 - didn't.
cowsnplows
Inactive
I have had a Kel-Tec p-11 for over 2 years and a P-32 for almost as long. I have never had any type of malfunction, period. they are the smallest,lightest, most concealable guns on the market. I shoot any type of round through either, from store bought to homemade. I've heard about the problems but have never experienced any of them. And the very idea that bragging on a company's service is wrong, I just don't understand. They make a good product at a good price, and back it up. Makes sense to me. I also have 2 glocks, 26,21, 2 Taurus revolvers, 606,607, a Makarov, Tokarev and I don't have trouble with any of them. Take care of them, keep em clean and exercise them often. Thanks